I don't think anyone is suggesting that holidaymakers enjoying a day off the beach in an inflatable should be queried, but surely specially made inflatables capable of carrying 40 Arabs or brown people plus luggage plus mobiles but no identification is worthy of some scrutiny?
696 migrants, 14 boats
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that holidaymakers enjoying a day off the beach in an inflatable should be queried, but surely specially made inflatables capable of carrying 40 Arabs or brown people plus luggage plus mobiles but no identification is worthy of some scrutiny?
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Why do Arabs or brown people need specially made inflatables.
I've just sold a dinghy capable of carrying 3 people, my previous dinghy carried 4-5 comfortably. There are more generously sized dinghies that will carry 6. There are semi rigid dinghies capable of carrying 12. Dinghies capable of carrying 40 people are actually quite rare, almost exclusively manufactured in China and exported to Germany eventually finding their way to Calais, probably for the sole purpose of transporting migrants,
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Do you honestly think the UK authorities would allow camps of illegal immigrants to be set up on the south coast while gangs organised custom oversized vessels to be manufactured, procured and tickets sold to vulnerable people looking for a better life in France. No, people would say, where did they come from? how did they get here? we must stop them from getting here. The French would be screaming, striking and protesting until we did something about it.
Are you really suggesting that the French authorities can take no action because they cannot tell the difference between a family out on a RIB day excursion and boat full of illegals trying to cross the channel?
The specification of the type of boats used by asylum seekers.
DIY death boats used by people smuggling gangs to send desperate refugees to sea
Four ramshackle RIBs were discovered at Dungeness beach in Kent today just hours after 27 died after a similar flimsy craft capsized Wednesday night
www.mirror.co.uk
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1. Bingo - they don't enforce, because they don't want them claiming asylum in France, instead they turn a blind eye to the criminal activity, doing the minimum they can get away with, in order to facilitate it being someone else's problem.Your arguments are based on logical impossibilities and legal improbabilities.
1. They do enforce their laws. They do patrol areas that are frequented by undocumented refugees entering France. I'm sure that when they detect dingies leaving without completing the formalities. they may prosecute, but that would merely encourage those refugees to apply for asylum in France. Clearly those refugees are intent on reaching UK, so they'll probably try again, and again.
I know they do prosecute people smugglers when they catch them. If France wanted to prosecute the refugees for infringing French laws, how would that be possible, once the refugees have applied for asylum in UK? Certainly UK could not prosecute them for infringing French laws.
2. I'm sure that you are aware of many laws that are fine as drafted, but in practice are difficult to enforce, and may prove inordinately expensive and provoke adverse publicity again if enforced. Then there is the normal test of the DPP:
3. To register an exit, by boat, from a country, one is required to leave via a port of exit, to have one's passport stamped, etc. This is clearly impossible and counter-intuitive when refugees are leaving from a beach in Northern France. There may be not be any passports to be stamped. Again, how would the French hope to enforce, such processes, or to prosecute refugees that have not complied? The boat was not registered, how would the French identify the occupants?
4.
5. The logging of a Passage Plan assumes one has a plan, however sketchy.
When seeing what is required in a Passage Plan, it is obvious that it would all be unknown for the refugees, or so vague as to be nonsense.
Of course logging a Passage Plan would be counterproductive if secretly leaving from a beach in Northern France.
You can see that your arguments are impractical.
2. Public opinion seems to be on the side of stopping the illegals coming here.
3. Incorrect. There is no obligation to leave via a formal port of exit. If someone enters France without following their immigration laws, do you not think they should be arrested, deported and/or prosecuted? Vessels capable of carrying more than 12 people need to be registered. more laws broken.
5. I have been asked for such information many times when transmitting destinations in the Med. I still have to keep a log of all passengers daily temperatures when skippering in Greece. I have witnessed first hand, skippers being taken apart by the authorities for not having correct paperwork. The fines are significant.
I think the UK government would be making their usual excuses and blaming everyone but their own failures for such a hypothetical scenario.
They'd probably have a COBRA meeting or two to identify the most plausible excuse to feed to the public.
If/when they were detected, what (French) law have they broken?
Bearing in mind that the recent media article that I posted makes it obvious that the departures occur at night, from multiple locations, which are difficult to stop. That media article also explains how the problem has existed for decades, and every attempt to stop it merely pushes the problem into new territory and methods, creating new markets and "entrepreneurs".
1. I said very clearly, they do patrol these areas, but these areas are vast and require so much resources which deprives other needs. It's only your assumption that the French ignore the problem, an assumption so easily fed and consumed by your own bias.
2. Of course UK's public opinion has been fed by decades of UK propaganda. What other 'public opinion' would you expect?
3. The main reason for the formal notice of departure is so that passports can be inspected and if required, stamped. That is only possible at points of entry and exit. But we are only discussing exit from France in this scenario. Unauthorised entry to France is a whole new issue and irrelevant to this discussion.
4.
5.How do you identify the 'skipper' of an anonymous dingy, if or when they are detected? Who do you prosecute?
As I said, your arguments are based on logical impossibilities and legal improbabilities.
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These are clearly a "single Use" design. There is nothing to keep the "hull" rigid, to protect it from folding in waves, the transom doesn't even appear to be made from marine ply. They could have no purpose other than the purpose they are being used for.
Quite.These are clearly a "single Use" design. There is nothing to keep the "hull" rigid, to protect it from folding in waves, the transom doesn't even appear to be made from marine ply. They could have no purpose other than the purpose they are being used for.
That illustrates the desperation of the potential asylum seekers.
And the UK government think that a potential chartered plane ride to Rwanda will deter the asylum seekers.
It also pours considerable doubt on gone's claim they are produced and transported from China.
Although I do suspect that these boats are the exception, rather then the rule.
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Broken Laws:
- failure to comply with the Schengen entry requirements for non EU citizens: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm
- Unlike the UK it is a legal requirement to register your pleasure boat https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/the-french-registration-of-your-pleasure-boat-49652
- French people trafficking laws are similar to ours.
I think we are in danger of going round in circles.
French authorities can only prosecute those criminals that they detect and catch. It is not possible to register an anonymous boat, it needs some sort of identification.
UK cannot prosecute using EU or French laws.
France does prosecute and imprison people smugglers, among other types of criminals.
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Where did I say the UK would prosecute infringement of EU/French law?
Your question was, what French laws have been broken.
Why are you ignoring the fact that someone entered France illegally and did not seek asylum to protect them from prosecution of the relevant immigration laws that they broke?
If they all chipped in to buy the boat and have joint title, then they are all responsible for the registration. The fact that its a DIY boat built from grow bag plastic is irrelevant. Its a vessel that needed to be registered. I suspect however the more serious crime is the immigration offence.
The moment one of these dodgy craft is sighted in French waters, there are grounds to investigate. Instead they escort them to UK waters and hand them over to SARs teams who escort them to the UK for processing.
Your question was, what French laws have been broken.
Why are you ignoring the fact that someone entered France illegally and did not seek asylum to protect them from prosecution of the relevant immigration laws that they broke?
If they all chipped in to buy the boat and have joint title, then they are all responsible for the registration. The fact that its a DIY boat built from grow bag plastic is irrelevant. Its a vessel that needed to be registered. I suspect however the more serious crime is the immigration offence.
The moment one of these dodgy craft is sighted in French waters, there are grounds to investigate. Instead they escort them to UK waters and hand them over to SARs teams who escort them to the UK for processing.
I am suggesting that UK border police do not maintain control of British beaches, and do not examine the passports of people getting into boats, and do not arrest them
Under what British law can British border police arrest people getting into a boat?
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