696 migrants, 14 boats

JohnD said:
that's an interesting diversion.

Let's suppose I go on holiday to Paignton. I rent a pedalo, or an inflatable canoe, or I buy a RIB or a leisure craft, and set off into the water.

Do I need an exit visa?

does emigration police check my papers before allowing me to set off?

what laws control me getting into my boat and pushing off?

Why do British border police not arrest me and seize my craft?

If UK has "taken back control" of its borders, what British laws do I break by setting sail?
Click to expand...
criminal gangs operating in France loading boats with people some of whom have perished making the crossing

And the french are not aware of it

Your peddle boat waffle has no relevance tbh
If you had a child on board you should be arrested for negligence and imo jailed for endangering the safety of others

Than there is the issue of thousands of these said peddle boats all going to France

Dare say the french may have some thing to say about it ???

But hey ho it would be the frenchs fault

They would be responsible for your peddle boat antics

Nowt to do with the UK
 
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carmanmemoranda said:
Thanks for the offer.

There are better sources out there though. More independant.
Click to expand...

Oh do u need to ask a friend ?

Perhaps you could contact some geographical org / society

They should be able to confirm for you that Calais is in France ????
And part of the french state ?
 
transam said:
Oh do u need to ask a friend ?

Perhaps you could contact some geographical org / society

They should be able to confirm for you that Calais is in France ????
And part of the french state ?
Click to expand...
From your biased perspective I would still choose other more reliable sources.

What you are trying, and failing to say I think is... that the uk and the eu should be working hard between them to find and stop the criminal gangs. The big problem with that is the lack of resources (obviuosly a part of that network must be uk based). France has a huge coastline as do we. Do you seriously think the only route is calais to dover ? I am sure that is monitored well and most travellers are found. What about putside og that area? Bit late once at sea to stop them leaving. How many are France stopping ? None ?
But once they are apprehended by us its our problem, nobody elses. We used to have power and influence at the french end of course, but i think something there changed ( for the better of course).

Typically as a biased person you look at 1 part of the issue and blame somebody else.

Take some responsibility. Most of those that voted remaim want the issue controlled if not sorted. But are under no illusions as to who has to sort it.
 
carmanmemoranda said:
From your biased perspective I would still choose other more reliable sources.

What you are trying, and failing to say I think is... that the uk and the eu should be working hard between them to find and stop the criminal gangs. The big problem with that is the lack of resources (obviuosly a part of that network must be uk based). France has a huge coastline as do we. Do you seriously think the only route is calais to dover ? I am sure that is monitored well and most travellers are found. What about putside og that area? Bit late once at sea to stop them leaving. How many are France stopping ? None ?
But once they are apprehended by us its our problem, nobody elses. We used to have power and influence at the french end of course, but i think something there changed ( for the better of course).

Typically as a biased person you look at 1 part of the issue and blame somebody else.

Take some responsibility. Most of those that voted remaim want the issue controlled if not sorted. But are under no illusions as to who has to sort it.
Click to expand...

I don’t read long posts

Short attention span

In any event what ever you said I probably disagree with

Must admit I was never aware that the UK controlled Calais

Tbh I have my doubts
 
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transam said:
I don’t read long posts

Short attention span

In any event what ever you said I probably disagree with

Must admit I was never aware that the UK controlled Calais

Tbh I have my doubts
Click to expand...
None of what you said there surprises me.

Thank you for explaining why you dont understand the issue
 
carmanmemoranda said:
None of what you said there surprises me.

Thank you for explaining why you dont understand the issue
Click to expand...

No need to thank me for informing you that Calais is in France and dovor is in the UK

Agreed it has probably come as a bit of a shock for you to find out that the french authorities run calais and the Uk authorities run Dovor

Yep every day is a school day for you :ROFLMAO:
 
transam said:
No need to thank me for informing you that Calais is in France and dovor is in the UK

Agreed it has probably come as a bit of a shock for you to find out that the french authorities run calais and the Uk authorities run Dovor

Yep every day is a school day for you :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
You struggle to understand even the basics.

Never mind. We all make some allowances, I will too, for you.

If you can not or will not attempt to understand things there is no point in going further.

Have a good evening.
 
transam said:
criminal gangs operating in France loading boats with people some of whom have perished making the crossing

And the french are not aware of it

Your peddle boat waffle has no relevance tbh
If you had a child on board you should be arrested for negligence and imo jailed for endangering the safety of others

Than there is the issue of thousands of these said peddle boats all going to France

Dare say the french may have some thing to say about it ???

But hey ho it would be the frenchs fault

They would be responsible for your peddle boat antics

Nowt to do with the UK
Click to expand...

if anybody asks me, I say I am just sailing round the bay.

Under what British law do you think I would be arrested?
 
every border has 2 sides.
The UK only has control of one side

it is a simple concept, but not understood by Brexit supporters.
 
As we discussed on other threads it would be almost impossible for this transit to be performed legally.
1. France has similar immigration laws to the UK. Given the origin of the migrant/claimant, they will have committed immigration crimes by entering France and not presenting themselves to the French authorities as Asylum claimants. This is also true for any country they transited through.
2. Any payment or assistance for reward to pilot the boat, is a criminal offence (now with long sentences).
3. taking a small boat from France to England or visa versa, lawfully requires notification of exit and notification of arrival (at the 12 mile point).
4. Anyone outside the Schengen zone must also report.
5. Lastly there is a legal obligation for all skippers of all boats to have a passage plan

So lets not kid ourselves, that there are no crimes for the French authorities to prosecute. Every person looking to get to the UK to claim asylum who is in France and did not present at the point of entry - has committed crimes. Claiming asylum gives you some protection to prosecution, but if you don't claim, you don't have it.
 
motorbiking said:
3. taking a small boat from France to England or visa versa, lawfully requires notification of exit and notification of arrival (at the 12 mile point).
Click to expand...

motorbiking said:
5. Lastly there is a legal obligation for all skippers of all boats to have a passage plan
Click to expand...



so when I paddle my inflatable canoe off the beach at Brighton, at what point do the border police swoop down and arrest me?
 
motorbiking said:
As we discussed on other threads it would be almost impossible for this transit to be performed legally.
1. France has similar immigration laws to the UK. Given the origin of the migrant/claimant, they will have committed immigration crimes by entering France and not presenting themselves to the French authorities as Asylum claimants. This is also true for any country they transited through.
2. Any payment or assistance for reward to pilot the boat, is a criminal offence (now with long sentences).
3. taking a small boat from France to England or visa versa, lawfully requires notification of exit and notification of arrival (at the 12 mile point).
4. Anyone outside the Schengen zone must also report.
5. Lastly there is a legal obligation for all skippers of all boats to have a passage plan

So lets not kid ourselves, that there are no crimes for the French authorities to prosecute. Every person looking to get to the UK to claim asylum who is in France and did not present at the point of entry - has committed crimes. Claiming asylum gives you some protection to prosecution, but if you don't claim, you don't have it.
Click to expand...
A few points in response to your post:
1. French immigration laws are not enforceable in UK. Maybe they did contravene French immigration laws, but there's little that UK can do about that.
2. UK has tried to prosecute a refugee for that offence (once I believe) at great expense and adverse publicity. There was difficulty proving "payment".
3. This applies to registered boats, not a dingy.
4. Schengen zone infringements are not enforceable in UK.
5. This applies to professional skippers only.

Yes, to respond to your fist two points, (the other points are inadmissible) there are some things things that France could do, and it is doing some of those things. For instance, it has patrols in areas know to be frequented by undocumented travellers entering France. But the Schengen zone puts the onus on the first country of entry to control that entry, the vast majority, if not all, of French land borders are with Schengen zone countries.
For sure, it could round up all itinerant travellers and put them all in prison, to what end?
 
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