80 years ago tonight...

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53 young men, (some of them not even classified as adults because they had not reached 21 years of age), gave their lives in one of the most daring raids against Germany.
This was the night of the infamous Dams Raid.
There was strong opposition to the scheme from the head of Bomber Command, (Sir Arthur, 'Bomber', Harris), who said it was a brainless folly dreamt up by a crackpot scientist, and could never be done. He predicted no one would come back from the mission. They would either be killed or captured. He was eventually overruled by his boss, (Sir Charles Portal), and the mission went ahead.
Of the 19 Lancasters that set out, 8 failed to return. 53 young men were either killed or captured after bailing out. Compared to normal missions where the percentage of lost crew was around 4-5% this was indeed a disaster with a percentage of 42% However, it has been shown that the success of breaching 2 of the dams, and damaging a third, had a tremendous morale booster for both the British public and the armed forces spread around the globe.
It's true the dams were repaired by the end of the year, but the consequential loss of power supplies, water pumping stations, roads etc took much longer to repair, and many were never replaced leading to more pressure on those that were working. Add to this the contamination of farmland down the valley and across the surrounding lowlands, meant the land could not be used for crops for a very long time afterwards. The crops that were growing were simply washed away so that caused food shortages throughout the Reich. Many skilled men were taken off the building of the Atlantic Wall in France. A defence scheme similar to the Maginot Line, but this was to prevent allied troops landing if they tried to invade. There were also many more 'knock-on' effects that people have never really appreciated. Not then, and not now.
All in all, what those guys did, had a much bigger impact on the war than has ever been appreciated. Everyone of them should be remembered and honoured.
 
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A mate's dad was a bomber, flew Hurricanes mostly though. Never talked about the war, but would sometimes mutter "I think bombed that town once" if a German town was mentioned on TV many years later.

Crazy, awful days. He was one of the lucky ones to never get shot down.
 
It was a success, but also remember that there was no military target and it intentionally targeted civilians, as did many of our attacks on Germany.

Not preaching right or wrong, it was all part of the crappiness of war.
 
They're showing Dambusters: Declassified again on BBC4. Well worth a watch. A recent documentary on the raid had a chap wandering around one of the dams (can't recall which) and it was a real eye-opener when he repeated how low they flew (60') and casually mentioned one of the bombers actually flew no higher than a street light along the road! Balls of steel, those blokes.
 
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The main aim was to disrupt German manufacturing, which in those times, was mainly military essentials.
Bear in mind, at this stage of the war, both sides were now ignoring the protocols of military targets thanks to the Luftwaffe, (admittedly inadvertently), dropping the first bombs on civilians in London a few years previously.
 
Yes, you're right - power generation and factories were wiped out together with lots of lives. WW2 was pretty terrible for everyone. I'm not sure who targeted civilians first, I think it was probably us - which definitely caused lots of German deaths and arguably British deaths too when the Germans retaliated.

Just making the point that it wasn't all twirly moustaches and a jolly jape. Lots died that night.

...then we voluntarily joined the EU with Germany shortly after. It's a strange world. Sorry to veer into brexit territory, I know it invades almost every thread here. But it's amazing how quickly we switched from mass deaths to collaboration then near enough political union.
 
According to wikipedia, Germany bombed civilians in Holland, then we bombed civilians in Germany.

So not clear-cut, but I believe we intentionally bombed german people before they intentionally bombed ours. But we were all allies against them, and obviously they needed stopping one way or another.

Just making the point that war is messy, and that one side's historic victory may have been a family tragedy for others. IMO any commemorations should be tasteful and acknowledge this, it wasn't a footie match.
 
The main aim was to disrupt German manufacturing, which in those times, was mainly military essentials.
Bear in mind, at this stage of the war, both sides were now ignoring the protocols of military targets thanks to the Luftwaffe, (admittedly inadvertently), dropping the first bombs on civilians in London a few years previously.
Both sides believed that mass bombing raids alone could force the enemy to surrender. Bomber command never primarily targeted military targets, the closest they came was bombing cities which had military manufacturing.

Harris had to be forced to divert any of his bombers away from city bombing.

The dam busters raid and the raids on the artificial fuel plants were far more effective but were never pushed that hard.
 
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It was a success, but also remember that there was no military target and it intentionally targeted civilians, as did many of our attacks on Germany.

Not preaching right or wrong, it was all part of the crappiness of war.
Yes, Wallis' daughter was interviewed the other day and said post war, all in all her father didn't look back on the whole thing positively. As you say, the crappiness of war. I despair that humankind will never rid itself of the trait to harm other humans, the desire for power, greed and so on.
 
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You can only imagine how damn scary it must've been, flying into that hail of fire and flak; the noise of the engines alone would drive you mad on a round trip to Germany. This guy takes you on a tour with a birds eye view from the bomb aimers seat on a nice sunny day...


...the flyover of Blenheim Palace is spectacular.
 
On the subject of bombing civilians

Jeremy Bowen has been doing a series on radio 4 about war reporting and remaining impartial ?

He reported on the bomb shelter full of civilians that was targetted by the US in the Iraq war

43O civilians were killed (woman and children ) the US and UK propaganda machine swung into action claiming it was a military base ( a lie) bowen reported the truth and was compared to Lord Haw Haw by several sources for telling the truth
 
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