A very strange freeview problem

Is this another piece in the jigsaw?

I don't use our DAB radio, but the other half has just mentioned that it has been playing up for about the same time as we've had problems on freeview...

It sounds 'squelchy' on all stations..

Is DAB broadcast from the same transmitters as freeview?

If so, could this then turn out to be a transmitter problem even though no faults are reported?
 
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You don't have any new internet over the mains type devices do you?? Or anything similar?? These things are known to be very dirty & to as a result cause all sorts of trouble (interference) to anything & everything. I don't think it would cause the TV to drop out, but a poor quality broadband pre amplifier, that is one that does not ONLY amplify the TV specific frequencies, are known to increase or even induce reception problems caused by transmitters on other frequencies.
 
I refer you back to the link I gave you in my first reply. One of the possibilities listed on that page is
"Local interference caused by faulty street light or mobile phone mast?"

That could affect DAB as well as Freeview.

I recommend you read the page again, very carefully, and consider checking out all the possibilities.
 
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I refer you back to the link I gave you in my first reply. One of the possibilities listed on that page is
"Local interference caused by faulty street light or mobile phone mast?"

That could affect DAB as well as Freeview.

I recommend you read the page again, very carefully, and consider checking out all the possibilities.

A very long list of things can & do cause severe interference (QRM) to other devices. PC's, switch mode power supplies, Boilers, solar panels, fish tank equipment, or any one of a hundred other causes. But by far the worse offenders are PLT units which produce RF pollution at 10,000 times the legal EN 55022 level. The problem can be locally generated & received via the antenna system or it could be local or distant & be coming in via the house wiring.
The problem with QRM is that without understanding what it is & how to spot it & trace it, it's very difficult to diagnose..so again it comes down to that spectrum analyser & it's an easy way to spot the difference between a competent antenna engineer & a cowboy outfit.
 
Do different groups of channels get broadcast at different strengths, so that although the aerial appears to pointing at the transmitter something that has been mentioned is in effect blocking those missing channels?

Or that if the aerial is slightly off direction only the stronger channels are viewable?
Freeview is carried on a number of multiplexes - typically about 5 for standard definition, and another one for high def. Each multiplex occupies one "channel", the same width of radio spectrum that used to carry just one analogue channel. Various parts of the system will have slightly different handling for the different frequencies - the transmitter might not be putting out exactly the same amount of signal, the antenna has a gain that varies with frequency, and the TV tuners will have slightly different sensitivities to different frequencies. Add to that, if there is noise about, that will vary with frequency as well. So all in, it's possible to be able to receive (just) a subset of the muxes, but not the others.

I find the notion that a channel can be lost if the signal is too strong difficult to understand too!
Any system is designed to handle a certain range of signal levels. Too little and you can't hear - just like you can't hear someone who is whispering and is a long way away.

What people often don't understand is that if you feed in too much signal, it can overwhelm the system. Ever been to some sort of live performance where they've turned <something> up to 12 and what should be nice clear music and singing is turned into an unintelligible noise ? Such distortion on a Freeview mux would be enough to stop the receiver working.
On top of distortion to the signal that's wanted, there are several other frequencies being transmitted nearby (the other muxes), and when you start overloading the electronics, it's not uncommon for adjacent frequencies to start to bleed over - akin to going to the aforementioned even and as well as the sound system being much, there's someone stood next to you shouting through a megaphone.


As an aside, it's been well established that the human ear exhibits a lot of masking. If there's a loud sound present, then the sensitivity to other, quieter, sounds is reduced. Thus if the volume is turned up, you can no longer pick out the detail. This effect is used in MP3 compression - the encoder effectively models the human ear and works out which bits of the original signal you won't be able to hear - and throws them away. The result is a signal that can be encoded into a lesser quantity of bits.

Similarly, wearing ear protection doesn't just help avoid you going deaf - it actually allows you to hear more. It's counter intuitive, and I've failed to persuade a number of farmers, but wearing ear protection can actually make it easier to hear other sounds (such as a new noise from a piece of machinery that's starting to fail).
 
What people often don't understand is that if you feed in too much signal, it can overwhelm the system.

It's called front end over load & if seen on an oscilloscope, you would see instead of one peak, many. The receiver is being overloaded & it does not have to be caused by the signal you want to receive.
One common cause of front end overload on TV's is caused by the very poor quality pre amplifiers fitted by so called profession antenna installer. These devices are broadband, that means they amplify anything & everything across a VERY wide area of radio spectrum & not just the TV spectrum, so EVERY SINGLE signal within it's band width is amplified & that means the chance of front end over load is increased to a stupid level & then tv reception suffers.
However, if you are having a similar problem with DAB, then it is almost certainly not the problem.
HOWEVER...It could still be a strong local signal causing what is called desensitisation. This is where a strong signal overloads the receiver, despite the receiver being tuned to a different channel/frequency. But given the frequency differential between TV & DAB. This is unlikely, unless it's aVERY strong signal, so that leaves the probable cause as QRM, that is interference & across a wide frequency spectrum from something that should not be interfering.
So probably a local PLT plug, rather than anything else. These devices have been known to radiate as far as 1km & these things are a major problem.
 
The wiki link to QRM is not very accurate for two reasons. First the Q codes are both a question & an answer, so it could mean are you experiencing, or I am experiencing, but it could also be used as a statement of fact in that I have co channel or electrical QRM etc etc.
Secondly QRM does not cover all interference, as it is separate from QRN. QRN is natural interference, be that high levels of static, solar flare bursts or weird audio caused by Aurora Borealis, whilst QRM means man made interference.
 
I've been meaning to post the resolution to this for a while in case it helps others.. :oops:

Apparently there was a masthead connection that had failed, and instead of picking up all channels from the transmitter the aerial was pointed at, it was picking up the sideways signal from a nearby transmitter (3km away) that for some reason only broadcasts the limited number of channels I listed earlier..(still not sure why the signal made it down to the amp at all)

In addition, whenever I retune I have been advised to keep the aerial plug out of the tv socket until the tuning sequence gets past channel 44 (the local transmitter) and quickly put it back in before it gets to channel 48 (the main transmitter)...

So far so good!
 

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