they shoodof locked it sooner
Abuse of language
- Thread starter JohnW2
- Start date
This may or may not be true depending on how the evolution's occurred. Are you advocating we should still be speaking and writing just as Shakespeare?
You're obviously entitled to that opinion, but I would remind you that it's never me who initiates these discussions about "should of".
Indeed, which is exactly what I do when 'should have' becomes " should've" - since that is how I pronounce it. What you have to undertsand is that, in relation to your comment:
.... written English is not phonetic. There are countless examples in written English of 'silent letters' or, as in this case, of situations in which one has to insert an implied 'vowel sound' (implied by the apostrophe) between what would otherwise be an unpronounceable string of two or more consecutive consonants - that's why, as I said, I pronounce it as " should-erv " (the 'e' being a 'vowel sound' implied by the apostrophe) - since, as you say, " shouldve" (without the apostrophe implying a vowel sound) would be unpronounceable.
As I said at the start, I do not see this as 'evolution', at least not evolution during my lifetime. What I have written today I could have written about 60 years ago.
If that happened (in terms of writing, not 'saying'), then it would probably represent an 'evolution of language' (which some people might then want to oppose/criticise) - but it hasn't happened (and probably never will).
As I've said, in terms of 'saying' (spoken language) it's often/usually very difficult to determine whether someone is verbalising "should of" or " should've " and, in any event, it's primarily written language that dictionaries are concerned with. In terms of that written language, as I have said, I do not believe that there has been significant 'evolution' such that an appreciable proportion of people are writing "should of" - and I personally doubt that will ever be the case, at least in the foreseeable future (our lifetimes).
Kind Regards, John
Edit: while writing my reply my wifi threw a wobbly, I have no idea how on earth it turned it into a quote from John, it should've looked like this:
Some word in our language don't even contain vowels, does that make 'm unpronouncable?
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As we've discussed so often, you are obviously right in saying that evolution of language can, by definition, only happen if someone initially starts using language which is 'incorrect' at the time. That incorrectness may be due to 'ignorant mistakes', or laziness, but may also be deliberate if it is felt that the changes make the language 'simpler', more logical or whatever - for example, the latter is probably the basis of a fair bit of the evolution (particularly of spelling) of the traditional English language into 'American English'.
There must be millions of instances every day of people making mistakes (ignorant or otherwise) or otherwise 'misusing' the English language and the mystery is why a tiny proportion (but not the vast majority) of those instances rapidly spread amongst English-speaking people and therefore become 'evolution of language'.
Kind Regards, John
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Where did that come from - I certainly didn't write/type it
I don't think anything is pronounceable in the absence of some 'vowel sound(s)', but they may be implicit - as in when we speak the consonants of the alphabet - bee, see, dee, ef, gee, aich, jay, kay, el, em, en etc. As I wrote to EFLI, written English is far from all 'phonetic' - German is much more straightforward in that respect.
Kind Regards, John
No I know you didn't, I edited it, probably while you were writing.Where did that come from - I certainly didn't write/type it
Kind Regards, John
Yes, I saw that - after I'd posted mine. As you say, I think I must have been typing mine whilst you were editing yours
Kind Regards, John
AFAI *Halloween* is derived from *All Hallows Even* so technically it should be *''Hallow''e'en*. That's a total of 5 ' s in place of: All, space, s, space & v.
Of course the following days corruption is even worse; *All Hallows Day* has become All saints Day and now I seem to see it as *Saints Day* And in one American film recently *All Saints*.
Excuse my replacement of ' with *
Of course the following days corruption is even worse; *All Hallows Day* has become All saints Day and now I seem to see it as *Saints Day* And in one American film recently *All Saints*.
Excuse my replacement of ' with *
to avoid confusion of far too many 's.
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I am not, never have been and never will be 'a sparky'
Kind Regards, John
Apologies I assumed from your previous posts that you were an electrician.
You know what they say about assume....
Though I am unsure if you are being pedantic and you are an electrician....
Hmmm ok, your always having a pop at each other... There's commonly a thread started for the attention of a particular person
For very good reasons.
It's a symbiotic relationship; if a 'particular person' doesn't bite, they start to turn on each other!
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The ' mark denotes a missing letter or letters.
Eg: Wouldn't as an alternative to Would not, 'bus instead of omnibus (although of course today, bus is more commonly used) and 'n' in place of and, eg Fish 'n' Chips.
I was taught what the teacher called traditional English at school, like including the use of the apostrophe if shortening omnibus, hyphens and all right, instead of alright.
Talking of instead, the teacher preferred in his/her/its stead.
Eg, "John isn't here, but I can play in his stead."
Some apostrophes have disappeared in today's written English, along with many hyphens like Bumble-bee off-side and ice-cream.
Online is a good modern example.
Rightly or wrongly, over the years that internet use has been commonplace, I have seen all variations: on line, on-line and online.
Eg: Wouldn't as an alternative to Would not, 'bus instead of omnibus (although of course today, bus is more commonly used) and 'n' in place of and, eg Fish 'n' Chips.
I was taught what the teacher called traditional English at school, like including the use of the apostrophe if shortening omnibus, hyphens and all right, instead of alright.
Talking of instead, the teacher preferred in his/her/its stead.
Eg, "John isn't here, but I can play in his stead."
Some apostrophes have disappeared in today's written English, along with many hyphens like Bumble-bee off-side and ice-cream.
Online is a good modern example.
Rightly or wrongly, over the years that internet use has been commonplace, I have seen all variations: on line, on-line and online.
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