Advice on new CH system

[Norcon]

as to the cost, if you were in Germany you would be paying around three times what you pay in the UK

I find that hard to believe.

One of our customers has a polish guy working for him and his cars injector pump was damaged by laundered diesel.
Needed re-conditioning so he priced it up here with a reputable company. £840 quid.

Sent it off to a reputable company in poland and has it delivered back to rip off UK (carriage included) for £220 quid.


This is on German e bay at the moment. Location is Augsberg.

Real purdy isn't it?
Has 17 bids and current one is 1300 euros. 15 hours left.
Interested?

Problem is will the euro last another 15 hours?

 

[mrbutt]

The more you bleat on about getting things as cheap as possible, and how big your house is, the less appealing the prospect is.

Go for the Atag with hot water priority.

What's your problem?

I haven't BLEATED on about getting things done as cheap as possible, IN FACT I haven't said that once through the whole thread, I have only used the word "cheap" once in the whole thread.

Yes I have said its a large house, and yes I gave the measurements, simply because people asked, so I havent BLEATED that either. Its part of the calculations.

There does seem to be some helpful people on here, shame there's people like you. As far as I know this is a forum for central heating discussion, so came here to get advice, that includes guide prices (so I can spot a guy who may try it on) and discussing measurements amongst other aspects.

If you dont want to hear me BLEAT on, dont click on the thread!!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Take my post how you like, but I do speak from experience and comments like:

Not RRP but the better deals

I generally wont be too fussed with thermostats in the annex and am sure the TRV's should be able to do all the temp adjusting we need

may only serve to the detriment of an otherwise constructive thread. the correct way of doing things is to zone the annex with its own interlock. Giving it its own multi point water heater is probably better than feeding it with a cylinder.. Why do you have the right to pay less than the RRP?

When I start designing the 6500 square foot system that one of my customers has lined up, the last thing I want to hear is things like the above.

And 500 litres of stored hot water, based on the details given, is daft. What is the physical distribution like? from my reading of the thread, very little has been given in the way of hot and cold water usage.


Now if you'll excuse me, I am off to annoy some football followers.

 

[mrbutt]

Take my post how you like, but I do speak from experience and comments like:

Not RRP but the better deals

I generally wont be too fussed with thermostats in the annex and am sure the TRV's should be able to do all the temp adjusting we need

may only serve to the detriment of an otherwise constructive thread. the correct way of doing things is to zone the annex with its own interlock. Giving it its own multi point water heater is probably better than feeding it with a cylinder.. Why do you have the right to pay less than the RRP?

When I start designing the 6500 square foot system that one of my customers has lined up, the last thing I want to hear is things like the above.

And 500 litres of stored hot water, based on the details given, is daft. What is the physical distribution like? from my reading of the thread, very little has been given in the way of hot and cold water usage.


Now if you'll excuse me, I am off to annoy some football followers.

Yes it was a constructive thread, no thanks to you may I add.

Why do I have the right to pay less than RRP? If I want RRP prices on products, I can ring the manufacturers and ask. There is NOTHING wrong in getting a product for less than RRP. Also, going by many many posts I have seen before on here, people do get less than RRP.
Im guessing that when you walk into a shop and they have a price, you refuse to pay this price and request RRP if its higher.

I said I wont be too fussed about thermostats because considering nobody lives in the annex (we dont use it as living space) and their has been potential issues with it pointed out to me in the thread. I was simply noting that I wouldn't think its absolutely neccassary, or maybe it is, im not the expert! Im here to get feedback.

Nobody else has commented on the storage cylinder, as initially stated, im not an expert, im here to ask some experts and put my ideas to them and see what they think. So yes, it may be a daft sounding idea to an expert, but I'm no expert and have asked what the forum members think and have had no comments as yet.

I hope this thread can continue to be as constructive as it was prior to the message on the top of this page!

 

[Dan Robinson]

There is a good reason for trade and retail pricing. Especially with this sort of thing.

Now... hot water usage... can you enlighten us a little?

 

[D_Hailsham]

Buying your own boiler and then expecting someone else to fit it is not a good idea.

1. The installer will get it for less than the "trade" prices advertised on the internet.

2. The installer will still want the same profit margin, so you could easily end up paying more in total.

3. If you buy the boiler, the installer has no liability if there is something wrong with the boiler. He is not the "supplier" so you have no rights under the Sale of Goods Act. You will then have to claim against the firm who actually supplied it to you and that will open a real can of worms involving your installer, your supplier and the boiler manufacturer, each one blaming the others for the problem.

4. Most installers will refuse to install something they have not supplied.

 

[mrbutt]

Points taken on the purhasing boiler seperately. I was trying to get approximate prices so when a breakdown of a quote is given, I know the sort of price range for certain parts.

Hot Water usage:

Main House
1x electric shower, 2x power showers, 1x Large bath, 7x Sinks

Annex
1x power shower (could change this to electric if necassary), 3x Sinks

Let me know if more information is required, thanks

 

[Norcon]

Has 17 bids and current one is 1300 euros. 15 hours left

16 minutes left.
Current bid is €1550.
Final bid - €2009 which is about £1620 +£200 carriage to the UK =
£1820

 

[ALEC1]

the structure of the industry is very different in Germany...partly because its a big country but also a country that takes engineering seriously..

the main differences are:

Local service centres related directly to the boiler manufacturer.
A separate profession for the installation of the chimney.

These little details have enabled the installers to keep their standards of service and prices much higher than in the UK...

People don't AFAIK shop around for the cheapest tradesmen quite like in the UK...and a german installers is as respected a doctor or a solicitor...

we are along way from that in the UK!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Main House 1x electric shower, 2x power showers, 1x Large bath, 7x Sinks

Annex 1x power shower (could change this to electric if necassary), 3 x sinks

500 litres, as I suspected, is far too much unless your bath is of swimming pool proportions.

Is the annex used regularly? I still think a multipoint is the best way to go in there.

For the main house, I would think a 250 litre prioritised cylinder is the way to go. If you go for an Oso Ri model it can be flooded up to 300 litres if you needed a bit more capacity later.

Now, was that helpful enough?

 

[mrbutt]

500 litres, as I suspected, is far too much unless your bath is of swimming pool proportions.

Is the annex used regularly? I still think a multipoint is the best way to go in there.

For the main house, I would think a 250 litre prioritised cylinder is the way to go. If you go for an Oso Ri model it can be flooded up to 300 litres if you needed a bit more capacity later.

Now, was that helpful enough?

Yes, that was helpful.

The annex only has 1 or 2 rooms used for about 10 hours a week, the shower is used every couple of days. Is a multipoint, sort of a small water cylinder, electric powered that would supply the annex with hot water?

250-300L tank sounds fine if that would do the job. A point that may be needed to take into consideration is that some people use the power showers for up to 20-25 mins sometimes. Will 250-300L cover that? If so, excellent

 

[DeltaT2]

the structure of the industry is very different in Germany...partly because its a big country but also a country that takes engineering seriously..

the main differences are:

Local service centres related directly to the boiler manufacturer.
A separate profession for the installation of the chimney.

These little details have enabled the installers to keep their standards of service and prices much higher than in the UK...

People don't AFAIK shop around for the cheapest tradesmen quite like in the UK...and a german installers is as respected a doctor or a solicitor...

we are along way from that in the UK!

What a complete load of drivel Alec1. Long gone are the these days in Germany, in fact even since the days of the Berlin wall coming down has what you state been true. Now it's just like here, any CC/CCC or chancer of any kind can pick up a set of tools & call themselves a Plumber/Heating Engineer. The Eastern Europeans & mainly Turks have ripped the trade too threads there.
More nonsense & missinformed drivel that constantly pollutes this forum, by aged know-it-all non trade members.

 

[Agile]

Main House 1x electric shower, 2x power showers, 1x Large bath, 7x Sinks

Annex 1x power shower (could change this to electric if necassary), 3 x sinks

500 litres, as I suspected, is far too much unless your bath is of swimming pool proportions.

The number of baths/showers/basins is of no relevance to the amount of hot water needed.

That depends on the anount of water used per day! We have not been told that !

The OP seems reluctant to tell me how many bedrooms and the current annual gas bill in spite of my asking twice!

Tony

 

[mrbutt]

The number of baths/showers/basins is of no relevance to the amount of hot water needed.

That depends on the anount of water used per day! We have not been told that !

The OP seems reluctant to tell me how many bedrooms and the current annual gas bill in spite of my asking twice!

Tony

Sorry mate, didn't know you was asking how many bedrooms it is, you asked if it was 12-18 and I said no Its a 4 bedroom house.
I thought the number of bedrooms would be less relevant than the number of baths etc to the amount of hot water needed.

Also, I stated earlier that the annual gas bill on the 31KW boiler is approx £1500. Thinking back though, its probably more like £1500-1800 on the 31KW. The LPG boiler has hardly been used as we are not using that section of the house till the heating is sorted.

With regards to amount of hot water used per day:

Approx. 4x power showers lasting about 15mins each.
Approx. 30mins of washing up in the kitchen sink.
The usual brushing of the teeth/wash face/hands.

There is the odd bath every now and again, maybe once a week.

Hope that answers the question.

 

[Agile]

OK so FOUR showers at 10 li/min of hot for 15 min each would be about 600 litres!

So I would still suggest a 500 litre cylinder is needed if the showers are in the same time frame, i.e. morning or evening.

The apparent extra hot water needed is achieved by the reheating during shower usage.

Washing up is minimal HW useage and normally at other times to the showers. Machines normally heat their own water now.

Tony