Advice - upstairs and downstairs halls being done.

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I am having my hallways plastered up and down.

The wall joining the next house (party wall??) has had a huge crack in it, so removed all loose plaster back to brick work and filled the cracks with cement (i could have removed and replaced the bricks around the crack, but looks like it hasn't moved in decades, so just filling, also crap at DIY).

My question is, as we have some guys in plastering, what should I look for to spot if they are doing a good/bag job?

The highest piece of wall is over 20ft, from stairs to ceiling. How will the plaster and skim this all in one go, so to make it smooth?
We are wanting to paint the wall, so a good job is needed.

I do think they will do a good job, just want to be knowledgeable of the work, to spot the cowboys (never forget the guys who tarmac'd my dads drive and left have un-finished as it has snowed haha)

 

[Richard C]

I am having my hallways plastered up and down.

The wall joining the next house (party wall??) has had a huge crack in it, so removed all loose plaster back to brick work and filled the cracks with cement (i could have removed and replaced the bricks around the crack, but looks like it hasn't moved in decades, so just filling, also rubbish at DIY).

You should remove the plaster back to the brick & reinforce the crack by covering it with stainless steel reinforcing mesh extending 150mm minimum either side or there is a very good chance it will crack again; even using mesh will not guarantee it won’t.

My question is, as we have some guys in plastering, what should I look for to spot if they are doing a good/bag job?

You should ideally get a recommendation from previous customers or look at some if their previous work!

Ask if they can do some bricklaying/groundworks/carpentry/plumbing etc. for you as well; could be a bad sign if they say yes as plastering may not be their master trade.

Difficult to describe how to decide if someone knows what they are doing if you don’t know yourself; you could make yourself familiar with the plastering process by trawling the archive posts/looking on the internet but it may be difficult for you to spot before they have made a complete pigs ear of it. Quiz them about previous work, watch them very closely & try asking lots of silly questions to see if they get nervous; they may politely ask you to bugger off as you’re distracting them but it shouldn’t bother them unduly & just look at how they generally go about the job.

The highest piece of wall is over 20ft, from stairs to ceiling. How will the plaster and skim this all in one go, so to make it smooth?
We are wanting to paint the wall, so a good job is needed.

They should erect some form of trestle or scaffold system to allow them access to the whole wall in one go; I’ve done a stairwell & they are a right ****** as your continually jumping up & down on scaffold boards; I would be very surprised if they tried to tackle more than one wall at a time in this location & I would expect it’s more than a days work; it took me 2 days to skim 3 walls & that was after completing all the local repairs & levelling; several large cracks like you have.

 

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cheers Richard

when you say "stainless steel reinforcing mesh extending 150mm minimum"
how is this attached to the wall?

is this screwed into the brickwork, acting as a giant plaster/gauze?

 

[Richard C]

That’s 150mm either side, total 300mm; I just use long galvanised plasterboard nails to fix it in place &, yes, it helps reinforce the plaster if the substrate (bricks) are cracked. It works well in most cases where the movement that caused the problem has stopped or is minimal but, like I said, no guarantees it won’t reappear.

 

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sorry to sound stupid, but "long galvanised plasterboard nails", what are these sunk in to?
bricks? cement?

 

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oh and another quick question.

if I remove more plaster to find more crack.

It is possible to cement the crack and then plaster (with the mesh) on the same day?
or do I have to leave the cement to dry before plastering?
if so how long?

cheers

p.s. the plasterers are coming this weekend and i get back to the house on the friday.. nice plannning

 

[Richard C]

sorry to sound stupid, but "long galvanised plasterboard nails", what are these sunk in to?
bricks? cement?

These work OK on lightweight blocks but not on brickwork where you may have to use masonry nails or even screws. The intention is not to firmly fix the mesh to the blocks/bricks, merely to hold it in place on the surface while you render/base plaster over it.

 

[Richard C]

oh and another quick question.

if I remove more plaster to find more crack.

It is possible to cement the crack and then plaster (with the mesh) on the same day?
or do I have to leave the cement to dry before plastering?
if so how long?

cheers

p.s. the plasterers are coming this weekend and i get back to the house on the friday.. nice plannning

If you can only see one large crack then in all probability that's all that’s underneath. Don't bother cementing over the crack as it won't make any difference to the strength; You can use render or base plaster for the repair, it depends what’s already there; generally I use Bonding plaster over the lot flush with the wall & then re-skim whole wall. If it' a gaping chasm then fill it first & leave overnight before applying the base plaster.

Are your plasterers expecting you to repair & prep the cracks out to existing level? If you remove great chunks of the base plaster back to brick & they are expecting just a cosmetic skim job then it will slow them down considerably, you should maybe talk to them about what they are expecting & what repair work they anticipated/are prepared to do.

 

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Hi Richard

The crack runs vertically from mid stairs right up to the chimney.

In the roof space I have had a look and someone has put 2 pieces of metal like stiches across the crack.

I have uncovered about 6 ft of the crack and where there has been gaps, or cracked bricks I have filled with a sand cement ready mix, pushing it deep into the cracks.
The upper part of the crack I haven't exposed yet as there is a radiator partially covering it.

A builder who lives a few doors down has the same thing and he removed all the bricks either side of the crack and replaced/relaid.
I don't have the expertise for this and since the largest the crack gets is about 1inch and seems very stable, I have decided to fill.

The plasterers know about it and are going to come along tonight to have a further look at the preparation I have done.

If they expose the upper crack, can they fill with the sand cement mix and then plaster on the same day, or do they have to leave it to dry?

How should I go about fixing the metal gauze/grill on to the wall?

Cheers for all the advice, it is much needed as I have so much differing advice.
I am going over to the house later, so I will try to up load a photo to show .

 

[Richard C]

Was waiting for the photo but from the detail in your last post, I’m a little concerned about the extent of this ‘crack’! One inch wide 'really is' a gaping chasm & the type of repair your builder neighbour may be what’s needed. You also say the crack it goes right up to the chimney, is the wall actually part of the chimney flue?

Rendering in cracks that wide should be left at least until at least the next day, probably longer, to give the cement a chance to harden off properly before you plaster over it; it’s also way too wide to get away with Bonding plaster. I think you definitely need to have someone look at it & give further advice before going ahead with the plastering or your could be throwing your money down the drain; see what your plasterer says but I would also get some advice from your builder neighbour if you can?

 

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Hi there sorry for the delay and thanks for all the good advice.

Here are links to some photos.

This is upstairs.
The crack on the stairs is abotu 6 foot to the left of this and 3 feet below.

This crack is on the landing,, the wall the is the joining wall.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/858868213/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/858868191/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/858868169/

These photos are to show you where it is in the house and in relation to the other crack.
The other crack was filled and has been plastered (yes I know we are going at pace).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/859778356/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/859778330/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/859778276/

As you look at the pics, from downstairs the crack is above the beam with the decoration.
From upstairs it is at the right of the small radiator

How worrying does it look, as it looks like the crack hasn't moved in years.
I am thinking of filling with sand/cement mix....

We aren't trying to actually fix the house to new as it isn't worth it, but we want to make a good repair.


What do you think?


Cheers

 

[Richard C]

That’s a bit more than a crack & way beyond the scope of the repairs I suggested. Maybe others on here can comment but that looks pretty serious to me! I’d be concerned it’s not continuous but in 2 places either side of the landing support beam &, unless it’s an illusion, it also looks to be separating as it gets higher. This adds up to a lot of movement, indicating that one side is moving in the opposite direction to the other; was the ground floor crack similar & did it get narrower lower down? I would also want to look behind that skirting board/radiator to see if the crack extends along the brick course effectively joining one with the other.

Does the property have any history of foundation problems? Is it terraced or semi; if so what’s happening with the immediate neighbour’s property(s). Have you just bought it & did you have a survey? Are you going to live in it or is it an investment property?

 

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I have removed the radiator and here is the crack

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/860227346/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/860227364/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10357138@N08/860227446/



The last picture the top one of the three is the most worrying.

The crack goes from thin on the downstairs, then go vertically up the chimeny. In the attic you can see where someone has put the metal staples on it.
It also looks like it has cracked along where the landing goes in the wall, then vertically and diagonally back toward the main crack.

I'm not going to remove any more plaster until tomorrow when we can get a builder in to look at it.

Who would you suggest we get to look at it?
A builder, a structural surveyor???

 

[Richard C]

Your describing what I had expected, it’s difficult just looking at pics but the more you remove the more concerned I get & I think you’ve got something serious going on there. One of those last pictures appears to show a hole forming in the structure behind the render, where’s that brick actually gone to? I would remove all the plaster/render in that area to see exactly what’s going on with the rest of the wall; it’s all going to have to come off anyway to properly asses it. By coincidence, I am a qualified engineer (but not specifically structural) & even I would be getting a structural engineer/surveyor in before doing anything else, it’s the only way your gonna get piece of mind & I would hope your builder would say the same; out of interest, do keep me posted.

 

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Cheers for the advice

The play at DIY has definately stopped.

I'm worried about removing the plaster as that might be holding the wall up, as it is bulging according to the spirit level....

So we are going to call in a structural surveyor to do a proper report on it.

it is going to cost us money, but hey it is worth it in the end....