After some advice: Mild tingle from shower when in use

[deadshort]

The worst case scenario would be that the problem exists and is caused by water ingress into the wiring which increases the longer the water is running and over time causing a greater risk to the user.

As I precaution i would move the suspect lighting circuit on to the RCD side of the CU. You could install a RCD FCU in to the feed for that lighting circuit ? Much cheaper option and giving you peace of mind.

DS

 

[JohnW2]

The worst case scenario would be that the problem exists and is caused by water ingress into the wiring which increases the longer the water is running and over time causing a greater risk to the user.

I suppose so (particularly given the "nothing is impossible" principle which seems to be relevant to this discussion!) but I think I would struggle to understand how even what you describe could fit the observations and/or ever represent a true risk to the user of the shower. After all, I think it's been established that the shower metalwork is in good electrical continuity with any other metal around in the room, and with a good path to earth.

As I precaution i would move the suspect lighting circuit on to the RCD side of the CU. You could install a RCD FCU in to the feed for that lighting circuit ? Much cheaper option and giving you peace of mind.

On the 'peace of mind' basis one cannot argue with that, given that it would be easy and cheap to implement - although I don't think that any of us would expect that RCD to ever trip. Unless the OP has more general reasons for wanting to upgrade his CU, I'm not sure that the cost would really be justified by what we know - but only the OP knows how he personally feels about the financial value of even more 'peace of mind'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[TheGovernor]

I think replacing the CU, or at least the breakers within it, falls into the category of "a good job" rather than an essential one.

I hadn't really thought of just replacing the lighting circuit only with an RCD, I might think about that, although because of the unique way my mind works, I am quite attracted to the idea that everything is RCD protected.

It's akin to when I empty the garage and sweep the floor clean, it's quite a bit of effort and takes me nearly a day but it quietens my OCD side to know all the corners are swept clean and it's all neat

 

[JohnW2]

I hadn't really thought of just replacing the lighting circuit only with an RCD, I might think about that, although because of the unique way my mind works, I am quite attracted to the idea that everything is RCD protected.

Whilst you will see some debate/discussion about how much benefit, protection-wise, RCDs really offer, they certainly cannot do any harm in that respect, and must at least occasionally do good. The only real downside of having everything RCD/RCBO-protected relates to 'nuisance trips' (albeit pretty rare), particularly if they disable a freezer or alarm whilst one is on holiday! In that respect, all-RCBO is better, since it means that a fault (or unexplained 'nuisance trip') on some other circuit will not take out, say, the freezer or alarm.

The regulations have been gradually moving towards the position of requiring everything in domestic installations to be RCD/RCBO-protected, and are now that far short of that position. It would not surprise me if they eventually get to that point (probably with just a few, very specific, exceptions).

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

If you have spare cash why to replace the offending shower?
for all plastic !

DS

 

[JohnW2]

If you have spare cash why to replace the offending shower? for all plastic !

Yes, that's a bit of 'lateral thinking' which also occurred to me - or, at least, insert bits of plastic pipe in the cold and hot feeds to it. If that were done then one would have to seriously stretch the imagination to blame any sensations the OP might continue to experience on anything electrical!

Of course, he has two showers to do, which would double the costs!

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

Marigolds x2 pairs

DS

 

[securespark]

Just to be completely safe, wear one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Festartikel-Müller-GmbH-Full-Condom/dp/B000VLXFPK

 

[TheGovernor]

Whilst you will see some debate/discussion about how much benefit, protection-wise, RCDs really offer, they certainly cannot do any harm in that respect, and must at least occasionally do good. The only real downside of having everything RCD/RCBO-protected relates to 'nuisance trips' (albeit pretty rare), particularly if they disable a freezer or alarm whilst one is on holiday! In that respect, all-RCBO is better, since it means that a fault (or unexplained 'nuisance trip') on some other circuit will not take out, say, the freezer or alarm.

The regulations have been gradually moving towards the position of requiring everything in domestic installations to be RCD/RCBO-protected, and are now that far short of that position. It would not surprise me if they eventually get to that point (probably with just a few, very specific, exceptions).

Kind Regards, John

One of the electricians told me that next year some new reg is coming in requiring split-load RCD as minimum for new installs?

Any opinions on the RCD's I should get, I just read on the GE website that 10mA is required for protecting people, 30mA upwards is for protections against fire... is it worth me requesting 10mA, interested to hear opinions?

If you have spare cash why to replace the offending shower?
for all plastic !

I don't want to give anyone the impression I have "spare" cash

 

[JohnW2]

One of the electricians told me that next year some new reg is coming in requiring split-load RCD as minimum for new installs?

A new Amendment to the regulations is coming next year (IIRC, published 1st January, becoming active 1st July), but I'm not aware (I may have missed it) any change such as you suggest.

Even the existing regulations require RCD protection of many things for new installs - e.g. virtually all sockets circuits, everything in a bathroom, any circuits involving ordinary cable buried <50mm deep in walls - and that lot amounts to 'almost everything'. Existing regs also talk vaguely about 'separation of circuits so as to minimise inconvenience in the event of a fault' - which most people seem to interpret as meaning that having a single RCD protecting everything is not acceptable. A dual-RCD (with or without some extra RCBOs) or all-RCBO CU is therefore what most people currently regard as being necessary to be compliant with current regs.

Any opinions on the RCD's I should get, I just read on the GE website that 10mA is required for protecting people, 30mA upwards is for protections against fire... is it worth me requesting 10mA, interested to hear opinions?

A 30mA RCD/RCBO is generally regarded as adequate for protecting people in ordinary domestic environments, since currents less than that are fairly unlikely to be fatal, at least in healthy people. Don't forget that RCDs/RCBOs do not actually limit the shock current (which will often be much greater than 30mA for serious shocks) but, rather, restrict the duration of that current before the device trips. A 10mA one obviously would give additional protection for shocks between 10mA and 30mA but, in the usual domestic environment, could well result in a lot of 'nusiance tripping'. A lot of modern electronic devices (even just battery chargers) can result in a leakage current of 'a few mA' and that can easily add up to a total 'leakage current' that would trip a 10mA RCD. It's therefore a bit of a compromise. With RCBOs, since they are only protecting one circuit (hence less 'totted up' leakage current), the 'nuisance trip' problem would be lower - but goodness knows what 10mA RCBOs would cost, even if you could find them!

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

How far is Southampton from Leeds? I get really frustrated with faults like this and the scores of electricians turning up without a clue about fault finding.

I would consider that option, new high standard cu fitted plus some proper investigation,even with accomadation, worth the money for peace of mind in my veiw

 

[JohnW2]

If you have spare cash why to replace the offending shower? for all plastic !

I don't want to give anyone the impression I have "spare" cash

FWIW, putting plastic inserts in the feed pipes to both showers (wich would guarantee that there was no electrical connection to the showers, regardless of what was going on in the electrical installation) would presumably require less cash than having an all-RCBO CU installed - although the latter would obviously provide some more general 'peace of mind'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[TheGovernor]

I dunno about that John, you know what plumbers are like , I could see them wanting to charge at least as much as the CU swap for the removal and refit of three showers...

 

[JohnW2]

I dunno about that John, you know what plumbers are like , I could see them wanting to charge at least as much as the CU swap for the removal and refit of three showers...

Maybe They wouldn't really need to touch any of the showers - plastic inserts in the pipework could presumably be installed a reasonable distance from the showers. However, I accept that it would be a pretty odd way to address the phenomenon you've been experiencing!

Kind Regards, John

 

[TheGovernor]

Maybe They wouldn't really need to touch any of the showers - plastic inserts in the pipework could presumably be installed a reasonable distance from the showers. However, I accept that it would be a pretty odd way to address the phenomenon you've been experiencing!

Kind Regards, John

It is! But you and DS have got me thinking