Anyone recommend a pin and magnet set for finding studs and joists?

[Keitai]

May seem like a small difference, but that small difference is enough to screw things up completely when trying to locate studs, especially if they are metal and only 35mm wide.


In modern domestics you can find either 400 or 600mm centres on joists (I've installed both, 600mm is more common). I find that dry liners can be a bit hit an miss on the positioning of intermediate studs (they are generally installed loose and adjusted into position before being screwed) with only the studs at the edges of boards being in a guaranteed place (because they need to be there to support the joint). Ceilings are pretty much always 600mm centres in my experience. Problem is that you cannot always guarantee that the first stud in a wall running away from a corner will be at 400mm or 600mm - I've seen instances where a wall frame is installed then boarded and a bisecting wall is then tied into the first wall at a non-standard centre by simply screwing through the new frame and already-skinned (on side only) wall into a piece (or pieces) of MF stud on the back face of the PB (this being at the stage where one side of the wall still hasn't been skinned to allow services such as electrical wiring, data cables, etc to be installed). That's why magnets make sense as a way of finding the screws

How about this with those magnets?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Look for neodymium magnets on eBay....... Like this or this (we use 30 to 40mm ones to hold temporary plastic dust sheets in place in some jobs such as shop fit work where there are a lot of metal fittings, gondolas, freezers, etc)

 

[KenGMac]

I have a 1000 Lumens torch, I use it to find plasterboard joints?

Hold the torch against the plasterboard so the length of the torch is touching the plasterboard a bright light [such as the above] shows up the plasterboard vertical joints, and if you are lucky the fill on the nail [or screw] holes also show up as small craters on the surface of the plasterboard?

 

[Keitai]

Look for neodymium magnets on eBay....... Like this or this (we use 30 to 40mm ones to hold temporary plastic dust sheets in place in some jobs such as shop fit work where there are a lot of metal fittings, gondolas, freezers, etc)

I ran the magnet along skirting until it stuck . It seems roughly 16 inches apart. I guess this is where the stud runs upwards? I was going to push the gimlet (in photo) into wall to see if there's wood.

I couldn't get the magnet to stick running it up the wall though, just on the skirting.

 

[HERTS P&D]

 

[Charlie George]

you have got to be taking the pi5s

 

[Keitai]

These two magnets are 16 inches apart on ceiling. Joists?
I live in top floor of a flats.

 

[Eccles]

About to do a similar job meself and fortunately I have a Powerfix multi detector which I bought from Lidl a few years ago for £10 which will do studs, cables, pipes and "deep" (meaning large cavities). I have heard some say that they don't work but that is not true and almost always because the battery power is low or the bloke concerned has not followed the instructions properly. Mine easily found the 3 inch timber studs when HID asked if I could stick something a bit heavy on the wall yesterday. A whole lot easier than fiddling about with magnets. This looks similar to the one I have: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-in-1-M...992777?hash=item215bea26c9:g:LIwAAOSwGJpc8TaL

 

[Keitai]

About to do a similar job meself and fortunately I have a Powerfix multi detector which I bought from Lidl a few years ago for £10 which will do studs, cables, pipes and "deep" (meaning large cavities). I have heard some say that they don't work but that is not true and almost always because the battery power is low or the bloke concerned has not followed the instructions properly. Mine easily found the 3 inch timber studs when HID asked if I could stick something a bit heavy on the wall yesterday. A whole lot easier than fiddling about with magnets. This looks similar to the one I have: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-in-1-M...992777?hash=item215bea26c9:g:LIwAAOSwGJpc8TaL

It's just I heard they dont work. Job and knocks said so himself on here and he knows what he's talking about. Surely they can be used in conjunction with magnets etc?

I was recommended this one which I might buy-

https://www.campbellmillertools.co....e6tO1CFdFt4Rwd2niFi7eUhfzuJqFOqRoCBOUQAvD_BwE

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Well, I can read, so I'll stand by what I say on the subject before. I've tried a good half a dozen "cheapies" over the last 10 to 12 years, plus the firm having had a Bosch GMS120 on loan a year or so back (a £250 tool) which I also had for a few weeks (as nobody wants to hack unnecessary holes in the lath and plaster walls of a listed building). TBH I have yet to try the newer Bosch D-Tect120 or the D-Tect 150 myself. The results I've had to date have been sufficiently inconsistent to render these devices somewhat less than useful to me. Maybe I'm being picky, but I have to deal with metal stud walls, timber stud walls, plasterboard, lath and plaster, double-skin plasterboard, masonry (brick, block and stone), timber-clad studwork, tiled walls, etc and to date absolutely nothing I've tried will consistently pick up either studs, wiring or pipework. The issue is that whilst they can sometimes work on thin, single-skin plaster boarded stud walls (i.e. some modern houses) the thicker the wall surface layer, the less likely they seem to work. Put them into a Victorian lath and plaster-walled building and they often just don't work, period. I've also found that metal lath (very common in modern buildings) seems to throw them, as can tiling. So I just tend to look for nails/pins in the skirting (a reasonable indicator of where there may be a stud behind), or run a magnet up the wall (which will often pick-up plasterboard clout nails, drywall screws or the metal sprigs/tacks they use to fix lathing). Wiring should be a vertical drop either from a switch plate/socket to the floor or from the ceiling, and so should be straightforward to pick-up in many cases

 

[EddieM]

No, they are useless I had a Bosch dmf 10, it was about as much use as a chocolate teapot, it had a cable detector, which would inform me my wooden table was potentially energised. Not what you'd expect for a £60 odd tool.

 

[Keitai]

Well, I can read, so I'll stand by what I say on the subject before. I've tried a good half a dozen "cheapies" over the last 10 to 12 years, plus the firm having had a Bosch GMS120 on loan a year or so back (a £250 tool) which I also had for a few weeks (as nobody wants to hack unnecessary holes in the lath and plaster walls of a listed building). TBH I have yet to try the newer Bosch D-Tect120 or the D-Tect 150 myself. The results I've had to date have been sufficiently inconsistent to render these devices somewhat less than useful to me. Maybe I'm being picky, but I have to deal with metal stud walls, timber stud walls, plasterboard, lath and plaster, double-skin plasterboard, masonry (brick, block and stone), timber-clad studwork, tiled walls, etc and to date absolutely nothing I've tried will consistently pick up either studs, wiring or pipework. The issue is that whilst they can sometimes work on thin, single-skin plaster boarded stud walls (i.e. some modern houses) the thicker the wall surface layer, the less likely they seem to work. Put them into a Victorian lath and plaster-walled building and they often just don't work, period. I've also found that metal lath (very common in modern buildings) seems to throw them, as can tiling. So I just tend to look for nails/pins in the skirting (a reasonable indicator of where there may be a stud behind), or run a magnet up the wall (which will often pick-up plasterboard clout nails, drywall screws or the metal sprigs/tacks they use to fix lathing). Wiring should be a vertical drop either from a switch plate/socket to the floor or from the ceiling, and so should be straightforward to pick-up in many cases

If you find say a nail in skirting would you then run the magnet up the wall to check for fixings directly upwards?

How do you know if a wall has studs or ceiling joists? I mean some are just plaster on brickwork arent they?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you find say a nail in skirting would you then run the magnet up the wall to check for fixings directly upwards?

Yes, basically. When you are installing skirting it's generally a good idea to nail where the studs are. The difficulty is that some nails will inevitably be into the wall's sole plate as well and in the case of MF (metal) studwork the pins will often not indicate anything, being skewed in to hold the skirting in place only until the grip adhesive has gone off

How do you know if a wall has studs or ceiling joists? I mean some are just plaster on brickwork arent they?

All stud walls have studs (uprights). The issue is spacing. Many builds use 400mm (16in if older) centres for studwork, but 600mm centres aren't unknown. Ceilings, on the other hand, especially if they are just false ceilings, can be joisted out on 600mm centres. In modern builds, where composite timber joists are used, these can also be at 600mm centres. Older/more traditional builds with timber joists tend to be 400mm (or 16in if older) centres

What we have been discussing so far is stud walling. When you get into plasterboard applied to masonry directly there is no such thing as spacing because the boards are fixed to the masonry using dot and dab (a sort of mortar/glue material) or in recent years by an expanding plasterboard foam. That type of wall requires completely differing fixings and a different approach. Unlike stud walls these don't sound as hollow when tapped

 

[Keitai]

Yes, basically. When you are installing skirting it's generally a good idea to nail where the studs are. The difficulty is that some nails will inevitably be into the wall's sole plate as well and in the case of MF (metal) studwork the pins will often not indicate anything, being skewed in to hold the skirting in place only until the grip adhesive has gone off


All stud walls have studs (uprights). The issue is spacing. Many builds use 400mm (16in if older) centres for studwork, but 600mm centres aren't unknown. Ceilings, on the other hand, especially if they are just false ceilings, can be joisted out on 600mm centres. In modern builds, where composite timber joists are used, these can also be at 600mm centres. Older/more traditional builds with timber joists tend to be 400mm (or 16in if older) centres

What we have been discussing so far is stud walling. When you get into plasterboard applied to masonry directly there is no such thing as spacing because the boards are fixed to the masonry using dot and dab (a sort of mortar/glue material) or in recent years by an expanding plasterboard foam. That type of wall requires completely differing fixings and a different approach. Unlike stud walls these don't sound as hollow when tapped

If it's a wall with plasterboard attached to brick for a strong fixing do you need those long fixings which go through plaster board into brickwork.

I have a flat built on 1970s. I guess it's all plasterboard attached to brick. It's a top floor with flat roof so guess it has joists though

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If it's a wall with plasterboard attached to brick for a strong fixing do you need those long fixings which go through plaster board into brickwork.

Plasterboard is rarely attached directly to brick (although it's not entirely unknown) - where it is used onto brick the two main ways are dot and dab (or these days sometimes plasterboard foam) and battens (generally 2 x 1 softwood battens packed off the masonry and fixed to it with plugs and screws) although sometimes you'll find full size stud walls instead. With directly fixed you just treat it like a plastered masonry wall (drill, brown or red plug, screw). With hollow walls if you can sometimes drill through the board, then into the masonry behind it and then insert a plug on the end of a longer screw - but this won't work if the dot and dab is extremely deep or the boards are onto full size studs rather than thin battening. If the void is sufficient you can always use some form of hollow wall anchor instead, depending on the weight to be carried

I have a flat built on 1970s. I guess it's all plasterboard attached to brick. It's a top floor with flat roof so guess it has joists though

Some (interior) walls will almost certainly be timber stud with plasterboard (not metal frame as this didn't really take-off in the UK until the mid 1980s or later), others could be wet plastered straight onto the masonry and there might well be timber battens or studs onto masonry and plaster boarded as well. I didn't think that something built in the 1970s could be dot and dabbed (if original) - didn't dot and dab come-in the 1980s as well? The other wall type you can find are those gawd awful Paramount partitions - two layers of plasterboard with cardboard "egg box" core. They betray themselves by how thin they are - much thinner than stud or block walling can be. Your ciling could be directly fixed to the joists although cross battening or suspended timber frameworks are not unknown, either