Anyway - right angle drill adapter.

[robinbanks]

Impact driver with a trimmed-down spade bit might fit between the joists directly, avoiding the need to turn the rotation through 90 degrees

 

[GhostIntMachine]

The amount of torque required to drive a 25mm auger bit requires a more substantial gear set and a far heavier cast body than a cheap adaptor will provide at the low price point you set. Drills are now cheap, very cheap, because they use plastic gearboxes and (barely adequate) nylon gearwheels which they can strip far too easily, but the angle drilling application requires hardened metal gearwheels (to handle the torque load which is harder on gear teeth than the straight connections in your drill's gearbox) encased in a metal housing (for rigidity). That costs substantially more than in a plastic housing. Take a look at the price of cordless drills with metal gears and gearboxes relative to plastic ones and you'll see what I mean about the difference in price. In addition you also want a chuck within that price - a half-decent 1/2in metal chuck is more than the price of a cheap DIY drill. So you are just asking far too much for what you are willing to pay for what is a very limited market IMHO.

The alternative is generally to look at second hand. Your drill lacks the 43mm shoulder that most reasonable quality adaptors use, but B&D at one time did make a metal-cased angle drilling adaptor. Take a look at this:

It's a rather tatty 1970s/1980s period B&D angle drilling adaptor. Metal gear teeth, cast metal housing. Somewhat overpriced at £35, IMHO - I saw a better one, still in it's box, on our local flea market last week, on offer for a tenner, The downside is that it needs to be mounted on a B&D drill (because of the odd-size threaded shanks), but they can often be picked up for £10 to £20 in working order, if you look around. The gears inside these are pretty small, so I wouldn't use it with a large 1/2in chuck, an auger bit or a spade bit with a threaded start, you'll possibly end up stripping the gear teeth. Rather go for a traditional plain start spade bit, such as the Irwin 4x:

Above: Bosch threaded start spade bit - I avoid this type of bit
Below: Irwin plain start spade bit - can be steered into a cut

B&D did apparently try to cheapen those angle drives by making one with a plastic body in the 1980s. I believe the resulting product was withdrawn because the casing used to flex causing the gear teeth to disengage and slip.

Lastly, I did have a chuckle about taking it slow and steady.

These things are about as amenable to being restrained to "slow and steady" as a Jack Russell in hot pursuit of a rat.

View attachment 383738

That's why spade bits with a plain start (as opposed to a threaded one) can be a better option. A plain start drill can also be started off at 45 degrees or so to the joist and rapidly turned into the cut (i.e. perpendicular to the joist). Modern impact drivers are good for this because they are so short (my current 18 volt Makita is just 111mm nose to tail) - which means that with a 1/4in hex shank spade bit (about 150mm long) I can get a hole drilled through a 2in joist where the joist spacing is about 200 to 220mm (another reason there's little call for adaptors?). Another thing about auger bits is that people always seem to drive them too fast (rotational speed). They cut far better at low revs, especially the bigger sizes - far slower than many 2-speed drills have as a minimum (think about the speed a brace was used at and how well they cut).

Auger bits can't be steered into a cut anyway near as easily as plain point spade bits, even if you resort to grinding the threaded start down to being just a plain point

 

[morqthana]

The amount of torque required to drive a 25mm auger bit requires a more substantial gear set and a far heavier cast body than a cheap adaptor will provide at the low price point you set.

£50? Or £50-100? OK.

Drills are now cheap, very cheap, because they use plastic gearboxes and (barely adequate) nylon gearwheels which they can strip far too easily,

Disagree. Were I to need to replace my cordless drill the new one would probably be £200-£250, and I wouldn't call that "very cheap".

Take a look at the price of cordless drills with metal gears and gearboxes relative to plastic ones and you'll see what I mean about the difference in price.

Yes, I'm sure there are cheap POS toy drills out there, but I don't have to buy them.

My disappointment is that there are only cheap POS adapters out there.

In addition you also want a chuck within that price - a half-decent 1/2in metal chuck is more than the price of a cheap DIY drill. So you are just asking far too much for what you are willing to pay for what is a very limited market IMHO.

So it seems.

The alternative is generally to look at second hand. Your drill lacks the 43mm shoulder that most reasonable quality adaptors use, but B&D at one time did make a metal-cased angle drilling adaptor.

It's a rather tatty 1970s/1980s period B&D angle drilling adaptor. Metal gear teeth, cast metal housing. Somewhat overpriced at £35, IMHO - I saw a better one, still in it's box, on our local flea market last week, on offer for a tenner, The downside is that it needs to be mounted on a B&D drill (because of the odd-size threaded shanks), but they can often be picked up for £10 to £20 in working order, if you look around.

Might do that anyway, as a longer term solution, but unfortunately I need to drill some holes "now".

Wonder what this will end up going for

Pardon our interruption...

Modern impact drivers are good for this because they are so short (my current 18 volt Makita is just 111mm nose to tail) - which means that with a 1/4in hex shank spade bit (about 150mm long) I can get a hole drilled through a 2in joist where the joist spacing is about 200 to 220mm (another reason there's little call for adaptors?).

My 18V Bosch is about 250, and these joists are also about that centre-centre.

But yours has now become a very useful reply - I'd never thought about getting one of those stubby impact drivers - if I can find a bare one compatible with the batteries I have, they can be reasonably priced. I've also got some 10.8/12V tools, but that might be a bit feeble for drilling through joists. 18V though...

Another thing about auger bits is that people always seem to drive them too fast (rotational speed). They cut far better at low revs, especially the bigger sizes - far slower than many 2-speed drills have as a minimum (think about the speed a brace was used at and how well they cut).

True. My drill will go fairly slow - it's got 2 geared speeds, and then electronic via the trigger, but not as slow as a brace. Although my Dad's old one wouldn't go into the gap either.

But we forget about hand tools.

Here's a lovely reminder: https://aeon.co/videos/on-the-norwe...transformed-into-a-boat-the-old-fashioned-way

 

[GhostIntMachine]

Disagree. Were I to need to replace my cordless drill the new one would probably be £200-£250, and I wouldn't call that "very cheap".

I can buy a top of the line (in 18v) Makita DHP486 for £120 to £130, sans batteries. That's cheap, relatively, against today's incomes. Even £200-250 for a set, against a median annual income in the UK of £29,520 in March 2025 (or £2,540/month: Source Forbes) is still cheap when compared with the prices drills were in the 1980s. Back then a corded trade-rated drill would have cost you getting on for a week's wages, or in relative terms about double what your drill kit would cost today (and bear in mind there were no readily available cordless tools at that time, you'd have been buying a corded drill). A Bosch DIY angle adaptor at that time was about half the price of an appropriate drill, so if you were to buy an equivalent model today, by rights it should cost half the cost of a drill - say £100 to £125 in your case. The problem is that drills, which are essentially high volume products, have got (relatively) cheaper. Low volume products like angle adaptors haven't, especially when made in Europe where labour costs are high. That is why a decent quality angle adaptor will cost you £150 to £200. These adaptors aren't all that easy to find for professional gear, and are also 43mm collar fitting (so not suitable for cordless drills): I couldn't find anything other than silly prices on the 'net when I looked just now so I rang our Metabo dealer to get a price on the model 6 310 780 00. He quoted me £150 + VAT or about £180 - but with 4 to 6 weeks delivery from Germany. I don't know about the Bosch item, mainly because I have more or less given up on Bosch due to their spare parts delivery being atrocious since Brexit (although TBH Brexit might not be the only reason)

Yes, I'm sure there are cheap POS toy drills out there, but I don't have to buy them.

A lot of models that people think of as heavy duty just aren't. Lower duty just means lower duty, not necessarily POS. If you need heavy duty, you always end up paying a premium for a metal gearbox and metal gears, so why should an angle drilling adaptor be any different

My disappointment is that there are only cheap POS adapters out there.

As I said there are good ones (as well as other solutions) - but you do have to be prepared to pay for them

...but unfortunately I need to drill some holes "now".

You say your Bosch is 250mm long - that's a ruddy big drill. Too big for joist drilling IMHO. My main drill is a Mak DHP481, and is about 205mm long, but that's srill too big for a 250mm joist spacing. The various impact drivers I've had were always a lot shorter - between 111mm (the current DTD173) and about 139mm (my original 18v BTGD145 from c. 2011). Chuck a 150mm plain start spade bit in that and rotate the bit into the cut and you can achieve your holes without the need for an angle drill. I see plumbers doing this sort of thing all the time

Wonder what this will end up going for

Pardon our interruption...

Looks pretty clean (possibly ex-Demo as Toolden are a tool dealer), so maybe in the area of £180 to £200. BUT, that is bare, and it will need a 40 volt battery (£75 for a 2.5Ah) and a charger (£60 ish, or an extra £140 unless you are already on 40 volt, for which there are no pattern batteries or chargers yet, AFAIK). I have the 2 x 18 volt version of the same drill (because I have standardised on Mak 18 volt batteries) - it cost me just under £250 early last year, ex-demo and to date has drilled the sum total of 5 holes. Which is how things tend to go - you invariably end up buying the tools you needed on the last job... As it happens that works out at £50/hole, so far, although to be fair they were 75mm diameter holes through 3in thick pitch pine joists. The Bosch 1100 watt corded drill with the angle head that the Mak is supposed to replace costs about £250 these days, with the Metabo head running an extra £180. So £430 in total. My drill is known to have racked up more than 32k holes to date. So a much more reasonable cost of 1.3 to 1.4 pence per hole.

But yours has now become a very useful reply - I'd never thought about getting one of those stubby impact drivers - if I can find a bare one compatible with the batteries I have, they can be reasonably priced. I've also got some 10.8/12V tools, but that might be a bit feeble for drilling through joists. 18V though...

Thanks. Just remember that you'll need a plain start spade bit (e.g. Irwin X4 style) with a 1/4in hex shank (or under a tenner)

My drill will go fairly slow - it's got 2 geared speeds, and then electronic via the trigger, but not as slow as a brace. Although my Dad's old one wouldn't go into the gap either.

My corded Bosch can be set-up and locked to do a steady 90rpm or so and upwards, which is something I have yet to see on a cordless drill. Can be very handy on steel as well. Bet your dad never had one of these, though:



That's a corner brace, note the flat part of the pad so you can get them in tighter to a floor or ceiling. They were designed to be used with centre bits like these for drilling joists:



You sometimes see them on car booters and flea markets. I still have mine somewhere (a Chapman, I think), plus a roll of Ridgway centre bits. They were incredibly slow to use and if you were in a hurry you'd always end up barking your knuckles. There were even specialist braces for drilling tight to the wall at speed, called corner braces, although I never possessed one:

But we forget about hand tools.

I don't. I do a mixture of modern work (refurbs. rebuilds, new extensions, etc) and work on listed buildings - often both in the same site. Some of the on-site repairs I undertake require tools of the same era as the building, so I have an eclectic mixture of modern stuff (lasers, plunge saws, cordless tools, Domino jointers, etc) and historic tools such as these:






One day I really must finish off my "office" (aka the junk room). Even those shelves are salvage!

 

[morqthana]

I can buy a top of the line (in 18v) Makita DHP486 for £120 to £130, sans batteries.

If I had to replace mine, I'd try to get lucky on fleabay, but I'd need batteries and charger too, and the ones for my current drill would be no use.

And yes - I know what you say about relative prices,

You say your Bosch is 250mm long - that's a ruddy big drill.

Just seemed drill sized when I bought it.

Actually it's 260

Thanks. Just remember that you'll need a plain start spade bit (e.g. Irwin X4 style) with a 1/4in hex shank (or under a tenner)

Bet your dad never had one of these, though:

View attachment 383801

No - just the regular one.

Wish I'd looked a few months ago - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/316565342320 £5.50 incl delivery.

 

[GhostIntMachine]

Just seemed drill sized when I bought it.

View attachment 383818

Actually it's 260

I put it down to shrinkflation - the way drills keep getting smaller every year whilst the price never goes down...

In the Makita universe the equivalent drill (18v NiMH) morphed into the Li-Ion BHP453 (250mm long, about the same size as the NiMH version), which was replaced by the DHP45 (225mm long), which in turn was supplanted by the brushless DHP481 (205mm long) which in turn has been replaced by the DHP486 (178mm long, about 82mm shorter than yours - a difference). That's a shrinkage of 72mm in 19/20 years. At 178mm you could chuck a 25mm spade bit and get the drill into a 300mm joist space. I'm beginning to think that at this rate it won't be long before Makita combi drills disappear completely

 

[morqthana]

Some of my joist spaces are about 200mm..

Even the current 18V Bosch would be too big

I'm not wedded to Bosch, BTW - the 18V drill I have is just what I happened to buy, but if I can stick to that battery system when buying an impact driver that would be good. I don't know the actual size of the compatible one, but it looks about the same length as the battery

 

[GhostIntMachine]

What model number is it?

 

[morqthana]

GDR 18 V

Which prompts a question.

Looking for a Bosch tool has taught me they've had a consistent naming convention for some time - my drill is a GSB 18 VE-2, and combis are still GSB <something>, with the <something> changing with voltage and generation etc.

The impact drivers are all GDS... (½" square) GDR... (¼" hex) and GDX... (2-in-1).

As I said I did want to stick with the same battery system I already have, but there aren't many GDR 18Vs about, and of course they're long in the tooth now, and yet surprisingly expensive compared to newer Li-Ion powered ones. Which might be because Bosch also subscribe to the "let's make each new generation of products worse than the previous one" strategy.

So even though it would be a nuisance to have another charger and more batteries knocking about, I'll look at those, in which case no reason to stick with or limit my search to Bosch.

So I was going look today to see if the "Makita universe" is similarly consistent. Or I could ask you for a run-down on the model number convention, if there is one


Then there's Hilti, and Hitachi/HiKoki/Metabo HPT...

 

[GhostIntMachine]

GDR 18 V

The impact drivers are all GDS... (½" square) GDR... (¼" hex) and GDX... (2-in-1).

Those letters all mean something. Being German the "G" probably stands for Gerate (tool). I know that "OF" in the routers stands for "OberFraese" (overhead router) - Elu used to be the same with their routers being prefixed "MOF" (for "Machine Ober Fraese"). No idea what the "P" prefix on the green Bosch DIY stuff stands for. Makita (my hobby horse of choice) has something similar with their tools - tools prefixed DHP are all combi drills, DTD are all straight impact drivers, DTL are angle (L-shaped?) impact drivers, DHR are SDS drills, and so on. The "D" is always the 18 volt LXT battery with electronic tool protection, older pre-protection tools (not made for more than 10 years) are prefixed "B" (so BTL061 vs. DTL061)

As I said I did want to stick with the same battery system I already have, but there aren't many GDR 18Vs about, and of course they're long in the tooth now, and yet surprisingly expensive compared to newer Li-Ion powered ones. Which might be because Bosch also subscribe to the "let's make each new generation of products worse than the previous one" strategy.

Your problem is that Bosch stopped manufacturing NiMH tools at least 9 or 10 years ago, so anything you see offered will be old stock and probably priced at whatever was the list price at the time. You will therefore struggle to find new NiMH tools and the prices will more than likely be all over the shop.

So I was going look today to see if the "Makita universe" is similarly consistent. Or I could ask you for a run-down on the model number convention, if there is one

Makita LXT (18 volt) is what I am most familiar with. I've been using it for about 18 years and changed over to Li-Ion completely about 2010. I currently have about 40 19 volt LXT tools. It's been pretty reliable (I've never made a warranty claim against Makita) and I really like the fact that they are one manufacturer whose tools are repairable because you can get the parts (and if you want to see a professional power tool repairer who espouses that opinion, take a look at a few of the repair videos on YouTube from Dean Docherty. Top man!). Which part of the range were you interested in?

Then there's Hilti, and Hitachi/HiKoki/Metabo HPT...

Hilti are megabucks, They seem to be more of a contract hire firm these days, where people take out a contract on, say, heavy concrete breakers and if the tools break down Hilti will supply a loan tool while they repair yours. I've only got a couple of Hilti circular saws, nothing more. TBH I find their range very limited for what I do (carpentry.joinery).

I know a couple of guys on Hikoki (was Hitachi - only branded Metabo-HPT in the USA, not in Europe). They tell me it is generally as well made and reliable as Makita, but again the range is smaller. From experience all I can say is that theirr cordless nail guns are excellent (I have four of them in different sizes, mainly because Makita were SO slow releasing their models, some 5 years later than Hitachi). Because Hikoki and Metabo are owned by the same parent organisation, a number of tools originally sold as Hitachi/Hikoki have been rebanded Metabo, especially the nailers and plunge saws. Apart from the colour (darker green) and branding the tools themselves are the same, apart from the battery connections. Metabo use an 18 volt battery system which comes in ratings up to 9Ah (I think), whereas Hikoki have got 36 volt batteries on their system which when used on an 18 volt tool deliver double the amperage (so a 36v 4Ah = 18v 8Ah). One other difference is that Metabo are part of the CAS Alliance, a group of manufacturers who share battery connections and technology. In reality this means they all use the Metabo battery systems in both 12 volt and 18 volt versions. To my mind, as a chippy, the most interesting CAS member is Mafell, because they make some very good joinery-specific tools

As you are talking about Metabo, did you know they make both a 12 volt drill with right angle adaptor:




A bit lightweight (Milwaukee have a similar system in their M12 range which I own, Festool also do a similar tool drill with an angle head - in each case the angle head is specific to the tool/range). Metabo also do a head (the DRILLATC head) which is designed for use with one specific model of cordless 18 volt drill:



But those aren't cheap

 

[morqthana]

Those letters all mean something. Being German the "G" probably stands for Gerate (tool). I know that "OF" in the routers stands for "OberFraese" (overhead router) - Elu used to be the same with their routers being prefixed "MOF" (for "Machine Ober Fraese"). No idea what the "P" prefix on the green Bosch DIY stuff stands for.

Possibly some German word for household, or diy?

Your problem is that Bosch stopped manufacturing NiMH tools at least 9 or 10 years ago, so anything you see offered will be old stock and probably priced at whatever was the list price at the time. You will therefore struggle to find new NiMH tools and the prices will more than likely be all over the shop.

I'm looking at used ones - you can tell from the photos how much of a hard life they've had, and so far I've always been OK (lucky?) with my purchases. I've got a 10.8/12V screwdriver and multitool, and a corded SDS, all bought used. Can't remember about the drill.

But that's what surprised me - used NiMH tools more expensive than used Li-Ion. as you say, possibly because of what they originally cost the seller.

Hilti are megabucks,

See above re second hand. Although more risky - would probably not have been originally bought by a DIYer, so if used and abused by a pro, why is he getting shot?

 

[GhostIntMachine]

Although more risky - would probably not have been originally bought by a DIYer, so if used and abused by a pro, why is he getting shot?

Probably because it is abused - that or it's been nicked

 

[blup]

I found the right angled Milwaukee adapter with hex bits worked best because you’re likely to be in a very restricted space if you can’t access the area to drill or screw into. A space tbat a bulky right angled chuck will struggle to fit. Obviously different if using larger augur bits between joists.

Milwaukee SHOCKWAVE™ CD Right Angle Attachment

If you're screwdriving or drilling in restricted or hard-to-reach areas, this Milwaukee right angle attachment will come in incredibly handy. The impact-rated attachment is suitable for use with the latest 18V impact drivers as well as cordless drill drivers.With a low profile of 36mm and a 90°...

www.toolstation.com

 

[Justin Passing]

Warning - I used one of these

With a cut-short flatbit for drilling joists. On about hole number 3 with a 32mm bit, the bit jammed with the grain of the wood and it burned the drill out in about 3 seconds. HIgh rpm, no torque.
This one doesn't burn out

There's a 3:2 reduction in the 90 so the drill's 600 rpm becomes either 400 or 900 depending which way round you put it on.
I splashed out for a new one but s/h you'd not regret the purchase. This one is presumably stolen but worth the price just for the 90. Standard drill mount so bin the 110V bit if you want.

I found a cheap DIY Bosch (mains) drill with the cut-off flat bit was short enough to go between most joists.

--

That's a lorra lorra rabbit planes. I never collected moulders, but I've got a filing cabinet full. Ollers and rahnds and so on. I keep them for the smell of the linseed oil.

 

[morqthana]

This one is presumably stolen

Might not be - that's a rather harsh judgement.

but worth the price just for the 90. Standard drill mount so bin the 110V bit if you want.

I've got a 110V site transformer somewhere.

Or there's this at pretty much the same price https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/357067034069

The thing is, I have so few holes to drill where I'd need a right-angle drill that even with a stonking bargain I'd think well yeah, but...

In the longer run I'm drawn to an impact driver as that will be useful for other things, but rather than get bounced into buying one I'll work out a shortlist of Bosch/Makita/Hilti/Hitachi etc options and bide my time on eBay.

In the short term, as I really have to get on with this job, I swung by Toolstation and got one of these:

Keyless Angle Driver

Fits most standard drills. Ideal for areas with limited access. Keyless chuck.

www.toolstation.com

Less than a tenner, and yes I know it's a POS, but what would be neat would be for it to fail just as I finish drilling the last of the 4 holes I need to do right now, so I can take it back and say "Oi - 4 holes - it broke - money back"