Arch repair

[FRAN1870]

Evening all,

Firstly I’m so sorry for all the posts, the kitchen utility project is a graft on my tiny brain.

Anyway after investing a small crack in utility I’ve found a wopping crack in an old archway which seems to be held up by a bit of timber and the inch thick plaster.

Structurally the floor joists above this door are supported by a series of joists that go the opposite way and there’s nothing else brickwise above this wall (it doesn’t go up to the roof I mean)

There was a small crack under the floor but I mortared that up about 5 years ago and it’s not opened up at all.

So in essence it looks like it’s historic and just those bricks above the door that need some filling. Basically if I fill the gap with something solid I believe the nature of the arch will be self supporting.

What should I use?

Mortar or that injectable resin stuff.... I know the later might be expensive but less messy and less mixing

On the other side of the wall there’s also a small crack so I assume the same problem exists but I’m going to stitch that with rods and resin when I get to removing the plaster from the kitchen.

Arch in red crack in yellow ... I can get my hand in

 

[bobasd]

Forget your ideas for squirting stuff into the wall or inserting rods you'll end up with more grief and expense and maybe a safety issue.

Remove all the surface panel above the door to expose whats beneath it - same with the other side in the kitchen. Remove all up to ceiling and to pipe boxing.
You most probably wont be ablee to do one side at a time.

Also hack off back to brick or block on the return wall to expose properly what you've already started.

Then post pics on here please.

 

[FRAN1870]

Forget your ideas for squirting stuff into the wall or inserting rods you'll end up with more grief and expense and maybe a safety issue.

Remove all the surface panel above the door to expose whats beneath it - same with the other side in the kitchen. Remove all up to ceiling and to pipe boxing.
You most probably wont be ablee to do one side at a time.

Also hack off back to brick or block on the return wall to expose properly what you've already started.

Then post pics on here please.

I’m a bit concerned that it’s only the plaster that’s holding it up, will need to Akrow it ....

What do you mean safety issue?

 

[blup]

Is that a door beneath the arch, and is the frame of the door supporting it?

Blup

 

[FRAN1870]

The door frame only supports the other skin

 

[FRAN1870]

I assume there’s an arch on the other side too?

 

[blup]

I'm a DIYER, I would guess there's a double arch, however it looks like an old property which may have been added to or altered over time. It's impossible to tell without further investigation.

The choice is to fill what's there with expanding foam or other filler/mortar/cement, and plaster over but that won't deal with any underlying issues, - or to follow the advice above and - carefully - investigate further. Don't do it if your not confident because the safety issues of putting in resin and rod are the same as knocking off chunks of plaster i.e. some potential collapse. It's one thing an experienced builder doing it - he knows what to look for; it's another for yourself.....Don't be put off by this, just be aware of the risks. You'd find it almost impossible for a decent builder to come out for a job this small, or find yourself paying through the nose for it.

Blup

 

[FRAN1870]

Thanks for commenting.... finding people to do “anything” is a ruddy nightmare! Even to come and have a look which is why I end up doing stuff myself. Obviously I want it to be safe so could I ask what you mean by safety? Why would stitching it cause a problem?

 

[cdbe]

If there's nothing above it then it's a simple (but messy) job. Strip off the plaster, if it's an old 9" solid wall the arch probably runs through the wall and even in its poor state should self support but if you're worried stick an acrow or a length of 4x2 under as a prop. You'll probably find a load of loose bricks, some scraps of timber, maybe some old cement bags stuffed in there. Insert 1 of these lintels under the arch, fill in, repoint/rebuild above and refinish then repeat for other side.

 

[blup]

By safety, I mean the risk of the arch collapsing, and maybe anything that is structural above it, that the arch is supporting, although you seen clear there is nothing there in this regard.

I agree it is almost impossible to get a builder out even to look at a small job, but they doubtless have good economic reasons for this. According to the laws of supply and demand there should be a significantly larger number of builders to do these sort of jobs (or to do them properly) but that doesn't seem to be the way market forces work in this sector.

Blup

 

[bobasd]

OP,
dont do anything else until you've stripped both sides and exposed whatever is behind the surface material.
Then posted pics.
dont take it upon yourself to judge any pressure or structural issues or you might end up having a much bigger and more expensive job to attract the attention of the jobbing builders you complain about.

 

[FRAN1870]

OP,
dont do anything else until you've stripped both sides and exposed whatever is behind the surface material.
Then posted pics.
dont take it upon yourself to judge any pressure or structural issues or you might end up having a much bigger and more expensive job to attract the attention of the jobbing builders you complain about.

Thanks, think I’m going to do that and get my structural engineer to take a quick look.... although I’m pretty confident that the building has moved at some point a long time ago causing the original crack that’s just been plastered over to hide it in stead of actually putting some substance into fixing it.

So on the utility side I’ve got a big unfilled cracked arch with no support other than the plaster. Btw we’ve been here nearly six years and crack in the plaster was about 2mm before I knocked Through the gap.

On the kitchen side it appears to have been filled already and has only moved 2mm ... possibly to do with the long dry summerthis year more than anything sinister. 2mm on a 100 year old house doesn’t seem like a lot although I appreciate it could be indicative of bigger problems.

This is the kitchen side before I knock it off

 

[FRAN1870]

By safety, I mean the risk of the arch collapsing, and maybe anything that is structural above it, that the arch is supporting, although you seen clear there is nothing there in this regard.

I agree it is almost impossible to get a builder out even to look at a small job, but they doubtless have good economic reasons for this. According to the laws of supply and demand there should be a significantly larger number of builders to do these sort of jobs (or to do them properly) but that doesn't seem to be the way market forces work in this sector.

Blup

Gap in the market for sure ....

As said earlier theres one joist of the original floor above sitting on that arch but the whole floor has also been supported in the opposite direction with some substantial joists. I’m not really concerned about the floor collapsing only the bricks in the arch.

I’ve got a strongboy under there as a precaution so I’ll knock the plaster off next week with that in place and see where we go from here.

 

[bobasd]

your making a mountain out of a molehill mate.
no SE is necessary at the moment an maybe period.
why not just do as suggested and stop flaffing about with a strongboy etc?

 

[FRAN1870]

your making a mountain out of a molehill mate.
no SE is necessary at the moment an maybe period.
why not just do as suggested and stop flaffing about with a strongboy etc?

Because I’m not convinced that there’s anything other than the plaster holding that section of bricks up. It’s only a small section so I agree a strongboy is overkill but the strongboy under the arch will allow me to take out the shoddy Plasterboard stud arch that squares off the door frame, and also take off the inch thick plaster without risk of getting any bricks on the head