Architect fees

[Julia2012]

I agree actually - a piece of paper does not necessarily mean you are good at your job but I will say I do have to meet some obligations before even putting pen to paper such as conforming to a strict code of conduct for ARB and RIBA, continuining 30 hours of CPD training every year to keep me up to date with new products health and safety etc... not to mention carrying PI insurance.

I would hope this helps give clients *some* reassurance because they at least have quite a bit of leverage if things go pear shaped because I could get struck off and clients recompensed my via PI! A draftperson can say 'Oh well, I only drew up what you asked me to' and there's not alot you can do about it if they missed a whole lot of stuff off. Plus, what do you do if the roof leaks because of their design? They don't necessarily have insurance so that will be one tab for the client to pick up.

(btw I can also be chippy - I have met some technicians who couldn't detail a nail in a plank but I don't go around calling them Bozos because I generally respect the ones I have worked with )

 

[^woody^]

Julia, don't be drawn into an argument to justify your job. There are good and bad Architects and technicians, and pros and cons of instructing either, and competence and insurance issues apply to either too

But I would hope that you stick around, as IIRC, there as been only one other Architect on here in the past few years and he did not stay long

You'll get used to FMT's monthly moods

 

[RIBAArchitect]

"Whilst as in every profession there is good and bad, not only are there many well qualified technicians out there who are familiar with the onerous lengths that sometimes have to be gone to in order to achieve a successful application but have an excellent knowledge of their local planners requirements and local plan too." ...but still blight the biggest investment most folk ever make with a dreadful extension that strangely looks just like the last one they did with a series of standardised compliant details!

"Furthermore the times I've had to sort out some Bozo architects rubbish planning application that looks pretty yet doesn't comply with any Building Regs is countless. I think architects spend 7 years learning how to be arrogant."

Never heard of 'variation to the provisions' or do you just copy the Approved Documents verbatim? How long did it take you to grow the chip on your shoulder? The times I hear the hackneyed phrase 'there are good and bad Architects'; bad Architects get struck off, bad technicians move on to the next project!

 

[indus]

Are you saying there is no recourse if I use a surveyor as opposed to a RIBA registered architect?

Surely they are indemnified in some way aren't they?

 

[^woody^]

bad Architects get struck off,

No, they only get struck off if a complaint is made and investigated and the member found to have breached the code sufficiently to warrant being struck off, as opposed to a nod and a wink slap on the wrist.

Otherwise Architects may be 'bad' in not meeting the clients needs, over designing and overcharging or just poor design of a crap job.

 

[chapeau]

Cannot see the point in paying an architect 12% just to draw what the mrs wants anyway.

Putting an extension on kitchen and paying local guy £325 for all drawings, beam calcs, and that also includes getting planning and building control on our side too.

The mrs told me what she wants, I told him what mrs said, he's putting it down on paper. What could possibly go wrong?

Saved me well over £2k though and that will pay for quite a bit of kitchen.

 

[indus]

When I got a quote from an architect for my loft conversion this was what he wanted

1) £150/hr to measure the place up and he said it would take at least 10 hours =£1500

2) Structural calc fees £1200

3) 5% of the build cost so approx £2500

Total cost £5200 for a loft conversion in a larger than average Edwardian semi


I paid £800. I can't think how he would have added £4400 of extra value to the project.

 

[joe-90]

Yes but he would have done it with 'flair' flicking his tape measure around.

 

[^woody^]

This site is full of Archiphobes

Architects are just normal people. They've made a mistake that's all ... everyone deserves a second chance

 

[RIBAArchitect]

Cannot see the point in paying an architect 12% just to draw what the mrs wants anyway.

Neither can I, and few Architects would. They would listen to what your Mrs thinks she wants and then provide advice in relation to that. It may transpire that what your Mrs wants is the best solution and is what gets built; in that situation then yes, go buy a drawing service for a few hundred quid.

However, whilst Mrs Client is often the one with the aspiration, she is rarely so enlightened as to desire the best solution for your home.

An extension can blight and/or devalue your house, or it can enhance it. Engage an Architect skilled in such projects and you get the latter. If you are ambivalent about capital enhancement; hire 'Woody'

The world is full of folk who 'aren't' but purport to be 'as good as' or 'better'. Generally these folk just translate as 'cheap'

John Ruskin: “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay
too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you
bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The
common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a
lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well
to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will
have enough to pay for something better.”

 

[RIBAArchitect]

1) £150/hr to measure the place up and he said it would take at least 10 hours =£1500

Then he was taking the p*ss. A Practice principal charges about £70/hour at the moment. A larger than average Edwardian semi would take no more than 5 hours to survey in its entirety inside and out. A loft conversion in isolation would not need a full survey.

Are you certain he was an Architect? A lot of folk purport to be as good as or better than an Architect; particularly loft conversion specialists who ignore that the floor of a loft is actually only a ceiling...

 

[chapeau]

That's an interesting post, RIBAArchitect. It presumes that Architects always know best and the person who lives in the home only sometimes does.

Now I am sure that clients are often wrong, but it's my house and if I stuff it up and reduce the value then that is my right. If an architect stuffs it up and reduces the value then I probably have absolutely no come back. I also have to live with his mistakes.

Architects have their place but it's not in designing kitchen extensions which come under permitted development anyway. If it's going to be a more significant change then we do have a check-and-balance in planning.

And yes I do see the flaw in that last paragraph but at least the mechanisms are in place to prevent complete rubbish.

Of course there are those who say architect designed buildings are rubbish, but that comes down to taste, and if it affects the house live in then I believe I am the final arbiter of that.

 

[RIBAArchitect]

Architects have their place but it's not in designing kitchen extensions which come under permitted development anyway.

They fall under permitted development given certain criteria, but you assume we are only there for the Planning process? The choice of a householder remains open; you can take a cheap route or you can engage a professional with previous experience and relevant training. You can end up with a brick box and a felted roof or your very own little grand design.

It is indeed a rare occurrence where I undertake an initial consultation/brief from a domestic Client and fail to enhance their expectation without necessarily increasing costs. I have several built examples where originally approached to design an extension I have evaluated the existing building, identified they already have sufficient space but it was simply badly laid out and used. By rationalising the space they already had I met their brief and saved them significant costs and upheaval. Whilst I deal with multi-million pound commercial development, one of my biggest joys comes from presenting an option (note, option, never an insisted solution) to a couple and see them look at each other whilst uttering 'why didn't we think of that?'

It is certainly your prerogative to 'stuff it up and reduce the value', but if an Architect is negligent on your behalf you have the benefit of knowing they carry compulsory professional indemnity insurance against which you can make a claim and/or report them to their professional body.

The choice remains your's, just as if your car is accident damaged it can be taken to the main dealers and repaired properly or to a back street garage where it will be 'blown over' and the paint bloom within six months.

I have no desire to compete at the level of a plan drawer, my track record speaks for itself. I have never advertised, even my website is recent and only exists because a viable business is expected to have one. My work comes from onward referral and reputation. If you are looking for someone in the classifieds of the local rag, you aren't looking for me!

As the saying goes, you pay your money and you make your choice!

 

[chapeau]

RIBAArchitect,

I am sure you have done some good stuff in your time and enhanced some buildings.

But you still give the impression that because you charge a lot of money you are naturally better.

As the saying goes, you pay your money and you make your choice!

Catchy, good soundbite, not many words so easy to assimilate, not neccessarily true in practice.

I much prefer 'You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate'

 

[joe-90]

Most people with an art degree are **** at drawing - I guess that goes for architects too? You can't learn artistic ability. You can't learn flair. You can't learn inspiration.