armour cable size

[cdorling]

Hi. I plan to run an armoured cable from a plug socket in the house to a greenhouse:-

RCD plug + cable to IP56 junction box on outside of wall;
armour cable underground to IP56 junction box in greenhouse;
junction box in greenhouse will be connecetd to a) IP56 twin socket
b) IP56 one way switch to IP56 junction box to outside lights (junction box and lights transformer to be placed in an IP56 weather proof box).

The distance is about 20m. I will use the plug sockets for anti frost heater/hedge cutter/lawnmower. I realise that at any 1 time I can only use up to 13a.

I believe I can do all of this myself because it will mainly involve various connecting of wires. As I'm using IP56 throughout and as it goes into an RCD protected socket in the house, I believe I meet all requirements. But..

I read here that a 1.5mm 3 core cable will allow for 15amps, and 3,600watts. But as the cable will be 20m long would 2.5mm be a better bet? Don't mind paying the extra, just didn't want to stop everything working as a result. The trench is dug, and B&Q has 10% off until 4pm today! Thanks.

 

[Steve]

use 2.5mm². Do you know how to terminate SWA? Buy the right glands (external) and clips when you go to B&Q too.

 

[cdorling]

2.5mm it is then, thanks, just wanted to check it wouldn't do any harm to go for the higher rating.

Re terminating, thanks for mentioning that. I knew I had to use glands of some sort. I've seen some brass looking 'gland packs' which have 'earth tags', but I was planning to use a junction box like the one shown here:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LB9025.html
Further down that page it shows nylon glands & locking nuts, and they also sell a shroud:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EK251SHR.html
Am I on the right track?

 

[PartPapproved]

Part P anyone??? [/quote]

 

[cdorling]

Part P anyone???

[/quote]

Helpful advice always gratefully received!

Can't say I've read it from front to back every day, but doesn't the use of appropriate IP rated components + an RCD plug + 50cm trench + warning tape etc comply with PP? Not being completely au fait with the various components doesn't mean that making simple connections can't be done by a sensible person. I'f I needed more major wiring done I'd use an electrician for sure, even though my recent experience of getting a quote for this job suggests they're on at least £100 an hour

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Helpful advice always gratefully received!

Can't say I've read it from front to back,

Do you not think that maybe you should be familiar with the laws and regulations that apply to things that you do?

but doesn't the use of appropriate IP rated components + an RCD plug + 5cm trench + warning tape etc comply with PP?

1) No - that trench is nowhere deep enough. And using the correct components, even correctly, only complies with some of the requirements of Part P.
2) You haven't said how you plan to test the wiring you install.
3) This work is notifiable.

 

[cdorling]

Do you not think that maybe you should be familiar with the laws and regulations that apply to things that you do?

I do indeed. Forgive me, as I don't know your background/qualifications, but I interpreted PP to say that if everything went into a plug socket etc etc then notification is not needed & regulations were met. But I do stand to be corrected, and that may only apply if I used a pre assembled/tested 'kit'. Thats why I'm sounding out you guys.

No - that trench is nowhere deep enough.

Apologies, you picked up on the 5cm trench I originally mentioned, its actually 50cm, I edited that earlier.

You haven't said how you plan to test the wiring you install.

All parts come to approx £125. The electrician quoted £500+ (if I dug the trench & without the lighting option). So I'd use some of the savings to have it tested by (another) certified electrician

This work is notifiable.

The local authority building person is in later this pm, I'll be able to check with him then.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[cdorling]

Hmm.. the local authority building regulations bloke here told me not to get too technical when I mentioned IP56! All he did was check a table that had 2 sections. As my query concerned 'outside work' he said it fell into the 1 which needs pre notifying & getting a qualified person to carry out. He added 'there's a £60 charge to register the work' and 'its all a bit of a minefield' and 'don't blame us blame the Govt".

He also wasn't aware of the pre-wired & tested kits (Armadillo) that are sold as not coming under PP, and can be daisy chained together, 'send in the paper work' he said.

He also volunteered that one way of 'getting around PP' (his words) was to do the work youreself, then get it tested by a suitable electrician, but the £60 notification fee would still need to be paid.

So I've got 4 options..
1) I still believe I can do the work & then get it checked at the end, if I can just find out how to use end those armour terminals...
2) I don't mind paying, so to save from being ripped off, I could get some more quotes, let them know that I how much the all the bits cost & hope they'll come in a fair bit cheaper than the 1st bloke, but still earn an appropriate amount for the time spent on the job.
3) Just use Armadillo kits.
4) Keep posting on here as an alternative to going into the garden

 

[Lectrician]

An electrician would install the cable correctly, gland it correctly, check your earthing arrangements are suitable, test and inspect the install, sign it off and save you £60, give you a guarantee, and do a neater job.

£500 is OTT, I bet you could get a cheaper quote from someone.

A plugged in install looks like a bodge to me from day one, and I don't know any sparks who would want to sign their name to install that starts from a plugtop, and installed by a DIYER.

We are constantly asked to cert others work.......Havn't done so yet, and don't think we ever will.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hmm.. the local authority building regulations bloke here told me not to get too technical when I mentioned IP56! All he did was check a table that had 2 sections. As my query concerned 'outside work' he said it fell into the 1 which needs pre notifying & getting a qualified person to carry out. He added 'there's a £60 charge to register the work' and 'its all a bit of a minefield' and 'don't blame us blame the Govt".

You can blame the Government for many things, but not the mess that LABCs are making of the implementation of notifying work.

It is not the Govt's fault that LABCs sat on their *rses doing ****-all for over 2 years before Part P kicked in.

It's not the Govt's fault that LABC employees have failed to understand what the law requires - e.g. "he said it fell into the 1 which needs... a qualified person to carry out" - that is not what the law says.

It is not the Govt's fault that LABCs are ignoring both the letter and the spirit of the law in facilitating notifiable work done by non-registered persons.

It is not the Govt's fault that LABCs are ignoring the advice from the ODPM that they are acting unlawfully in insisting that such work be certified by a qualified electrician and that they should immediately cease such practices.

He also wasn't aware of the pre-wired & tested kits (Armadillo) that are sold as not coming under PP, and can be daisy chained together, 'send in the paper work' he said.

They don't "come under Part P" because they are not classed as fixed electrical cables, but IMO attempting to avoid the law by not using fixed wiring where that would be the best solution is not the way to go.

He also volunteered that one way of 'getting around PP' (his words) was to do the work youreself, then get it tested by a suitable electrician, but the £60 registration fee would still need to be paid.

That's not "getting round" Part P - that's a typical LABC distortion of what should happen (and in the opinion of the ODPM it is something that LABCs are not supposed to do). What should happen is that you pay them the £60 and they inspect & test & certify, just like they would any other work which is controlled by the Building Regulations.

So I've got 4 options..
1) I still believe I can do the work, if I can just find out how to use end those armour terminals...

See //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27081 for one man's trials, with photos

2) I don't mind paying, so to save from being ripped off, I could get some more quotes, let them know that I how much the all the bits cost & hope they'll come in a fair bit cheaper than the 1st bloke.

They should do. My guess is that the guy didn't want the job, but like many tradesmen, felt that he couldn't simply say that.

3) Just use Armadillo kits.

No - don't do that.

 

[cdorling]

See //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27081 for one man's trials, with photos

Blimey, what a saga - you could have suggested I made a brew 1st! So now I have a lot of info on sheaths, banjos etc. The suppliers web site made it look easy, but it didn't come easy to that fellah. And he didn't post his final pictures, which he promised, wonder what happened!

They should do. My guess is that the guy didn't want the job, but like many tradesmen, felt that he couldn't simply say that.

Fair point. I live in a suburb on the outskirts of a town & always try and 'shop local'. There's an electrical installation business operating out of one of the shops so I went in there. His website talks about commercial work, but he did say yes when I asked if he/they would do a small job. I spose if I was willing to pay silly money, they'd take it on. But its more quotes for me. As Lectrician says, it'll look nicer