Astragal bars, Georgian bars and Astrical bars

[Mr_T25]

Someone please explain the difference between the three as some double glazing firms are driving me potty by mixing up the three.

I understand Georgian bars to be the beading or whatever the plastic strips are called, to be placed on the outside of the window to give the effect of Georgian bars.

 

[ronniecabers]

Georgian Bars ( normally 18mm , but sometimes 25mm ...even rarer 40mm ) .. inserts WITHIN the sealed unit , automatically giving the appearance of 'Georgian ' windows ) .. Astragal and Astrical bars are the same thing .... this are placed on the OUTSIDE of the sealed unit , usually over duplex layouts ( smaller layouts within the sealed unit to mimmick individual sealed units, even though it is all one unit ..if that makes sense).

If in doubt do an image search on google.....

 

[Mr_T25]

So on the double glazed units I have, they have put astrical bars - plastic beading whatever on the external glazing and the same to match on the internal glazing TO THE ROOM. Then within the glazed unit itself, the spacer bars are installed to make up what I guess is the duplexes. Are these to be regarded as Georgian?

 

[ronniecabers]

Its a Georgian layout , yes , but not Georgian bars if that makes sense

 

[Mr_T25]

Ok so proper Georgian bars are solid white bars within the glazing unit then? So they have to be made up of individual panes of glass to be considered genuine? Mighty expensive no doubt?

 

[ronniecabers]

Plenty of properties have the internal bars, it was originally the only way to do it.. so to consider it one way or the other genuine would be unfair....but on saying that , if you want to get as close a representation as possible , then yes , use Astragal Bars with Duplex units....and yes it does cost more, but when done right looks the part!

 

[crank39]

Look the part but can be a nightmare to live with

 

[Mr_T25]

Look the part but can be a nightmare to live with

Pls explain why.

 

[crank39]

Look the part but can be a nightmare to live with

Pls explain why.

On my travels up and down the country assessing problem jobs or claims for double glazing insurers I often come across astragals and the issues with them are this......

1- Because they're surface mounted you have to clean each square as a separate pane of glass rather than a complete dgu, cleaning your windows will become a days work.

2- Related to the above, window cleaners have to wipe and dry each individual square, squeegees are just to big, this often leads to window cleaners rushing and being too rough causing the bars to eventually fall off

3- Although the bars are held at each end with clips that wrap around the dgu before fitting usually (depending on style) the centre is unsurported and they can start to slip down once the sun has softened the glue on the tape used to stick them on with

4 - Brown woodgrain/rosewood can be a nightmare, these absorb more heat than white and will litteraly bow down, there is no strength or reinforcing in the bars, when the sun gets on them they WILL bow

I remember 1 particular job down in Suffolk, I drove down from the Midlands to inspect a job for the insurer regarding 'issues with geo bars', nice cottage style house and the customer or policy holder as they are to me advised various stick on geo bars have fallen off, upon inspection it turned out to affect every window (about 12 windows) and probably half the bars on each window were loose or had fallen off, she advised that the window cleaner hands them over as and when, while still on site I rang this through, normally I come away and write the report, job was declined for one thing or another can't remember, policy holder trotted out the not fit for purpose line; it all got very messy between them and the insurer, they'd wished they'd never chosen astragalus and wanted the insurer to pay to have all the units changed for internal geo bars, insurer refused as it was roughly a 2k job and then I have an irate ph tearing strips off me and double glazing was all my fault while balling her eyes out.

They look nice but be warned

 

[ronniecabers]

I can't disagree Crank with all your points BUT number 1 is a bit unfair as if you have original wooden georgian windows , you will still have that problem
and No 2 is the window cleaners fault not the products. No 3 I have seen happen on numerous occassions , hence we try and get them fully taped now

 

[crank39]

OK I'll give you number 1, but not 2, reason being is wooden windows with geo bars are solid and will stand being handled, brushed against, wiped over, bumped and banged, they don't move because they're part of the window, stick on geo bars aren't and you've only got to look at them and they'll fall off, not really but you know what I mean, they must be a window cleaners nightmare

 

[ronniecabers]

Lol ...I know exactly what you mean!

 

[Mr_T25]

Yes, my installer did warn me about this before we ordered them and suggested I go for the clear Windows or those with the bars inbetween the panes rather than external. I wanted the genuine looking ones.....guess I'll pay the price in years to come. I'm a lazy bugger so window cleaning shouldn't be an issue


My rear windows are all clear with no bars however. Just wanted them to match the street scene on the front elevation.