Attaching light to 'dodgy' ceiling

[martinh1961]

I need to fit/re-fit a lampshade to a celing in my Victorian House. Problem is that the lampshade was fitted into two flimsy bits of wood (lath) which aren't strong enough to hold the lampshade. I had an idea to cut a strip of wood which is longer than the distance between the two screws that hold the lampshade in place but the hole i the ceiling in which I can work (and also holds the wiring coming down to the lampshade) so have 'lost' the piece of wood I cut to size into the hole ..

any ideas what I can do to secure the lampshade?

thanks

Martin

 

[Taylortwocities]

Can you get to the site from the floor above? Pull up a floorboard or two.

Otherwise, it is going to be wiggling around with a strip of wood or two from below. Laths are never very good for this sort of thing as they have no strength once they get to 100+ years old.

 

[martinh1961]

Can't go in from above, thought of that ...

 

[bernardgreen]

Cut a piece of wood as long as possible that will go through the hole. Make the hole in ceiling larger if necessary but small than the diameter of the rose / fitting.

Drill a hole in the middle to pass a length of string through.

Put the wood in place above the ceiling keeping the string below the ceiling.

With the wood in the right place and using the string the pull the wood down against the ceiling drill pilot holes through the ceiling and into the wood for the screws that will fix the rose to the ceiling.

Drill a third hole for a screw to hold the wood in a place where it will be hidden by the rose. Put that screw in, maybe use a thin washer between screw head and plaster. Provided this screw is holding the wood in place the string can be removed.

Connect the cables and screw the rose / fitting into the wood using the pilot holes

It can help to tie string to the ends of the cables and then push them out of the way while fixing the wood. But make sure they ( and their strings ) are not trapped under the wood. Then when the wood is fixed pull the cables back down through the hole at the side of the wood.

 

[JohnW2]

Otherwise, it is going to be wiggling around with a strip of wood or two from below. Laths are never very good for this sort of thing as they have no strength once they get to 100+ years old.

FWIW, IME they seem to remain surprising 'strong', I suppose partially because there is not much distance between their fixings to joints. What few I have left in my house are (I presume, since they appear to be 'originals') ~120 years old, and still seem 'strong'. With either laths or 'wiggled pieces of wood', the greatest problem is usually trying to ensure that one's fixings go somewhere need the middle of them. It sometimes makes sense to use 'toggle' or other types of 'cavity' fixings, rather than trying to screw into the lath/wood - in the case of 'wiggled bits of wood', one can pre-drill appropriate holes in it and then 'wiggle' until the holes line up with one's holes in the ceiling. However, it can be an awful, and frustrating, hassle!

Kind Regards, John

 

[conny]

Cut the piece of wood as long as possible. Feed cables through central hole in the wood.Attach a length of light string around the centre and feed the wood into the ceiling hole. Connect cables to light fitting. Centralise the wood and then by tugging or weighting the string to keep it in place screw the fitting through the ceiling plaster into the piece of wood. Once both screws are started into the wood the string can be cut/untied. Continue to tighten each screw in turn and adjusting the fitting position until fitting covers the hole and is secure.

 

[conny]

Cut a piece of wood as long as possible that will go through the hole. Make the hole in ceiling larger if necessary but small than the diameter of the rose / fitting.

Drill a hole in the middle to pass a length of string through.

Put the wood in place above the ceiling keeping the string below the ceiling.

With the wood in the right place and using the string the pull the wood down against the ceiling drill pilot holes through the ceiling and into the wood for the screws that will fix the rose to the ceiling.

Drill a third hole for a screw to hold the wood in a place where it will be hidden by the rose. Put that screw in, maybe use a thin washer between screw head and plaster. Provided this screw is holding the wood in place the string can be removed.

Connect the cables and screw the rose / fitting into the wood using the pilot holes

It can help to tie string to the ends of the cables and then push them out of the way while fixing the wood. But make sure they ( and their strings ) are not trapped under the wood. Then when the wood is fixed pull the cables back down through the hole at the side of the wood.

Bug ger!!! I was typing mine when you posted this.

 

[bernardgreen]

Sorry but glad we agreed

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry but glad we agreed

You did. I would repeat my warning about making sure that the fixing holes for the rose are somewhere near the middle of the piece of wood - which is not necessarily as easy as it sounds when one is up a ladder and perhaps also pulling on a piece of string! The piece of wood is necessarily quite narrow, and one obviously doesn't want one's fixings too close to its edge.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

When the ceiling is lath and plaster, with no access above. Then I tend to go for hole sawing, a little bit smaller that ceiling rose/fixing plate. Then it is a case of fitting a length of timber into the hole as long as possible/suitable. If possible bracing across the joist but this is not always do-able. Then screw this timber through ceiling and then patch hole, obviously bring cables through prior to this.

 

[john4703]

I agree with the two previous posts about a bit of wood and string but I also cover the wood in glue, I usually use gripfi or similar. That means the wood is fixed to the laths so if the fitting needs changed in the future the wood does not move out of place.

 

[JohnW2]

I agree with the two previous posts about a bit of wood and string but I also cover the wood in glue, I usually use gripfi or similar. That means the wood is fixed to the laths so if the fitting needs changed in the future the wood does not move out of place.

I've tried that, but IME it is easier said than done to wiggle the bit of wood around with the glue on it and/or without loosing most/all of the glue! For that reason I favour 'fixing' the piece of wood (as you say, in case of future work on the fitting) by putting a couple of screws through laths into it (together with whatever glue may remain, if I've used it). Also remember that, in terms of relying on glue, that the back surface of the laths is far from flat - there will be lumps, sometimes large lumps, of plaster all over the place.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

Otherwise, it is going to be wiggling around with a strip of wood or two from below. Laths are never very good for this sort of thing as they have no strength once they get to 100+ years old.

FWIW, IME they seem to remain surprising 'strong', I suppose partially because there is not much distance between their fixings to joints. What few I have left in my house are (I presume, since they appear to be 'originals') ~120 years old, and still seem 'strong'. With either laths or 'wiggled pieces of wood', the greatest problem is usually trying to ensure that one's fixings go somewhere need the middle of them. It sometimes makes sense to use 'toggle' or other types of 'cavity' fixings, rather than trying to screw into the lath/wood - in the case of 'wiggled bits of wood', one can pre-drill appropriate holes in it and then 'wiggle' until the holes line up with one's holes in the ceiling. However, it can be an awful, and frustrating, hassle!

Kind Regards, John

I agree with this statement.

Generally I get a successful fixing on just the lath - assuming it'd not something like a ceiling fan that's going up.

Only very occassionally the lathes can split easily, or they're broken so you can't fix to them.

Have you seen if a joist is nearby? Sometimes some long screws at an angle can just reach a nearby joist.

 

[JohnW2]

I agree with this statement. Generally I get a successful fixing on just the lath - assuming it'd not something like a ceiling fan that's going up. Only very occassionally the lathes can split easily, or they're broken so you can't fix to them.

All agreed. IME (and not surprisingly), the splitting of laths most often happens if one tries to screw into them too close to their edge - hence my comments about trying to 'aim for the centre' (difficult though that can be!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

With regards to fixing the timber within the ceiling void, the best product to use, baring in mind the normal condition within the ceiling void and the dry and even surface of the laths. Would be dry-wall adhesive.
If you can remove any debris around the fixing surface, even possibly priming that area and the timber with PVA to prevent too much suction of the adhesive. A good dollop or two, to bed the timber support down, with the addition of screw fixing through ceiling, will go along way to leaving you with a trouble free support.