Bad patio

[Tony Hayes]

I think I posted in the wrong thread before. Anyway....

Hi all,

I have posted before and have since been disputing with the person who laid this patio. Basically, I had the patio laid and stupidly I knew nothing about the 150 mm rule. He has not laid it to this depth. Anyway, if you look at the picture you will see the bottom row of bricks are wet. This happens nowhere else on the patio where in some places it is at the same height.

I am saying it is the patio causing the problem. He is saying it is the weather. He says if the patio was causing the problem it would be the same everywhere. He is refusing to put this right. He says the patio slopes away from here (which it does) and water does not accumulate.

You will also notice I have pulled up some slabs and filled with stones to let the area breath, it has not done anything.

Should I be concerned? The ground is a clay base. It is all a bit messy.

 

[bobasd]

wheres the dpc line in the wall, it looks like the patio has bridged the dpc? do a photo showing the edge of the patio the ground and the brick bed with the dpc.
is ther any damp inside?
do you have a canopy over the door?
i guess you have cwi?

 

[Doggit]

If the DPC is just above the damp bricks, then that might suggest the waters tracking across, but it's difficult to tell at the minute. You've addes some stones in a couple of sections, and the rain shouldn't splash up at those points, but it it's gravel, then that fills with earth and dust, and can be innefective - you should use 1" stones, and make sure you have a hole down to earth, and get you're 150mm depth below DPC.

As you've come to an empasse with the builder, then you either get an independant assesment, or you send him a letter, stating that you are not conviced on his assesment, so you reserve the right to ask him to take remedial action if the situation doesn't improve. At the end of it, you may have to cut the stones back 4" and put in a drain channel, that drains into a surface water drain.

 

[Tony Hayes]

This is helpful.

I will have to get the independent review of this. I will check with my insurance company to see if I have legal support on my policy.

When you say tracking across, how do you mean?? It seems to stop well the wall changes direction.

Also, if I got a company to cut this out and fix, any guesses how much that would cost along that section of wall?

 

[noseall]

I knew nothing about the 150 mm rule. He has not laid it to this depth.

Was the professionalism of your slab man such that he was expected to know about the 150mm rule or did your budget allow him to implement it?

bottom row of bricks are wet

This is typical and common. All those bricks you cant see, under the ground, are soaking too. You can hope that whoever built the house used suitable bricks (FL) to deal with frost etc.

He is refusing to put this right

Put what right? If the patio were 75mm lower the bricks would still be wet.

You will also notice I have pulled up some slabs and filled with stones to let the area breath, it has not done anything.

Bricks below DPC do not need to breathe. They are amphibious.​

 

[Tony Hayes]

Noseall. Thanks for the reply. It is very helpful. I do not know enough on this matter and am just panicking a it.

In regards to the person who laid the slabs, I didn't allow him to lay them that high, I simply didn't know. I should have done more research.

He was recommended to me by a friend. I would be happy to leave it. I am just concerned that the patio may be damaging the property. As I say there is no splashing above the DPC. It's just that one area with the wet row of bricks.

To be fair we have only lived in the house for 6 months, so I can compare it to last winter. Also a pond was knocked down to build the patio near this area. Lots of water was allowed to soak into the ground before this patio was laid. Which was completed mid September.

Again thankyou for the support. Sorry if it seems like you are talking to an amateur.

 

[Notch7]

I cant see any issues.

Most modern house construction is concrete blocks laid onto the foundation and then face brickwork starting a little below ground level.

Your bricks are obviously quite porous.

However your dpc is doing its job, the brickwork is dry above.

The 150mm rule is only to minimise rain splash, having only 75mm / 1 brick course is fine. Ive had plenty of jobs signed off by the building inspector with this situation.

You are confusing rain splash with dpc bridging which can create a long term damp issue.

The thing your builder has done wrong is not discussing and getting an agreement with you prior to the job starting.

 

[Tony Hayes]

Notch7 thankyou. This has made me feel a little better. It has been stressful as not being in the trade I can only read things up. Plus It has caused quite heated arguments with the person who laid them.

It feels like the consensus is that it should be fine and that I maybe worrying unnecessrily?

I will monitor the splash back and see if this breaches and also monitor to see if it dries out in the summer?????

 

[Ian H]

I think if you lowered it you would just have 2 wet bricks visible.

 

[Notch7]

Notch7 thankyou. This has made me feel a little better. It has been stressful as not being in the trade I can only read things up. Plus It has caused quite heated arguments with the person who laid them.

It feels like the consensus is that it should be fine and that I maybe worrying unnecessrily?

I will monitor the splash back and see if this breaches and also monitor to see if it dries out in the summer?????

experienced tradesmen know what is good practice and dont give it thought, they just get on and do the job, but sometimes dont realise customers may panic not knowing whether something is fine or a long term problem brewing.

In your case, dont forget your house wall is cavity wall, so damp bricks you see are both below the dpc line and the outside skin of masonry only. The cavity itself will extend probably 3 bricks down so any water ingress, via damp or cavity condensation will work its way down some way below you finished floor level internally.

And because it is a cavity wall even if your bricks got damp above the dpc, its unlikely that damp would appear internally. However if the patio was above the dpc and you had solid walls, then you would have cause for concern.

You might want to unheat the arguments with the tradesman!

 

[Tony Hayes]

Thanks for this one. It does put my mind at ease. I was concerned that the patio was trapping water, which could freeze and thaw, breaking the bricks and leaving me with a repair cost.

I have certainly felt a little better reading these points.

 

[Doggit]

You might want to unheat the arguments with the tradesman

And give him a bottle of wine as an appology. But I'll finish by saying that he hasn't done himself any favours by leaving you to find the answers on here - he should have been able to go through it himself, even if he had to take a deep breath to handle your concerns.

 

[Tony Hayes]

Dear all. Sorry to bring this one back up. I asked a couple of people to have a look at the patio and they both said that in some areas the patio is sloping back towards the garage and this is what is causing the wet brick work. They have suggested installing aco drains, but with a cost of over £1100. Are they trying to scam me? This has made me think I shouldn't leave it.

 

[Ian H]

The most expensive bit of fitting the ago will be connecting it to the existing drains. Are they nearby?

 

[Tony Hayes]

Yes, not far. There is a downpipe at one side of the house. They plan to connect to this. They want to pull up slabs, dig trench, lay drains and then reinstate.

The pictures show the distance.