Bad smells in bathroom

[justlikemonica]

Thanks for the reply. We had the under-the-floor AAV removed but I am pretty sure there is one positioned up the chimney in the bathroom. It is a victorian farmhouse, so most rooms have open chimneys. Interestingly, the smell has been coming and going for two years now, immediately after a whole-of-house refurb. Before the refurb, the bathroom had a proper cast iron fireplace with an open chimney. The smell then used to be a sooty smell. We renovated the bathroom, and although we didn't box in the hole where the fireplace had been, we did site the bath across the space, sitting the bath into a tiled surround, thereby covering the fireplace. I wonder whether the presence of an open chimney had almost acted like a soil vent and had dragged unpleasant smells and gases away? As I said earlier, we have installed a vent pipe from our third fl bathroom and the nauseating, melt-off-your-face, rotten cabbage smell has now been replaced by the smell of stale, stagnant water. I think it is worth looking at replacing the toilet now, in case that is allowing smells in.
I am not aware that water is sucked out of the traps when the loo is flushed, I have tried topping up the traps but the smell persists. If I sniff the plug holes in the bath, basin, shower (what a glam life I lead) there is no definite smell coming from any of them, just from the toilet bowl. Thanks.

 

[Burnerman]

Ye gods. So, if I read this correctly there could be a SVP within the bathroom chimney, with an AAV on it? So, pong could be coming from there.....but, you say that the loo itself pongs when you stick your head in the bowl?
Run your hand (or kitchen paper) around the pan connector at the back, where the loo pan connects to the drains? Is it dry?
Lift the cistern top off the loo. Is the smell still there? Is there any possibility that the cistern overflow pipe (if there is one) is introducing nasty niffs from elsewhere? Pongs can't get through the water trap on the loo - they have to come from somewhere else.
I've got to admire your determination on this!
Cheers John

 

[justlikemonica]

John,
I don't believe there is a SVP (soil vent pipe?) up the chimney, just an AAV. We have installed an SVP from the third floor attic bathroom, up through the roof and out into the atmosphere. This seems to have stopped the hideous gassy smell, but instead we now have the stagnant smell. The toilet has always smelled - just in the bowl, not the cistern, but the gas smell has always over-ridden the stagnant smell. Now we appear (touch wood and it is early days yet) to have lost the gas smell, we have gained the stagnant aroma. I asked my daughter whether she thought the smell was the same as before but she said not - so that agreed with my view. I walk around my bathroom sniffing like a sniffer dog!!
My builder says there is no harm in putting a second SVP from the affected bathroom soil stack, out the wall and up the outside to roof height. I am also going to have the actual toilet replaced to see if this makes a difference. The plumber who removed the underfloor AAV has suggested the toilet has a fault, so maybe I should follow that. I am having to be persistent as it is driving me loopy.
Thanks!!

 

[Nige F]

All these aav`s and such weird sitings You need a inlet of air ( not a AAV) @ low level by the septic tank and a proper vent to air 3foot above any window within 14 feet at the head of the drain .That`s it Simples.

 

[Burnerman]

Well Monica sorry to be sounding a bit dim here, but I thought that an AAV was stuck onto a soil vent pipe, and used in such a position where it was impossible to get the SVP up into the atmosphere....so I don't understand whats in the chimney.
Anyway, your 3rd floor attic bathroom has a SVP above roof level (great) and its waste descends downwards, collecting the waste from the problem bathroom as it does so, then out to a chamber maybe and onwards to the septic tank. All very proper!
A vent at the septic tank is necessary and normally naturally occurs through chamber lids etc but it still wont affect the pong in the room.
I have absolutely no idea how a loo could fail in the way you say - unless the ceramic had become porous! Have you tried some domestos in the loo cistern? Really looking for straws here!
John

 

[justlikemonica]

This is where I begin to get out of my depth as I know we have a soil pipe on the right hand side of the bathroom going to the septic tank - and the chimney is on the LHS of the bathroom. It is behind the boxing for the bath and when we took out the underfloor AAV, my builder told me as far as he remembered there was an AAV positioned in the chimney - I presume it is just inside so easily accessible. Other than that is beyond my capabilities. I know far more about plumbing that I ever imagined I would, thats for sure (and what I do know could be written on a postage stamp). I have tried bleach in both the cistern and loo, but no other loo in my house smells, just this one, and it has always smelled stagnant, but hasn't been too much of an issue because it has been masked by the appalling sewer gases which hopefully have been sorted by the SVP on the roof. So one problem has been solved and another has replaced it.....I am beginning to bore myself now!!!!!
Monica.

 

[Burnerman]

OK so the soil pipe leading to the septic tank collects this bathroom waste, and is open to the atmosphere at the top, I imagine.
A little mystery though - the AAV that the plumber removed - was this another SVP or an original one or something....and to discover another one within the chimney breast - the plot deepens. AAV's naturally let air in when needed, but they can let a bit of pong out too.
Anyway, the damp smell remains. If you do replace the loo, and the smell goes, I'd love to hear about it!
Just one remaining thought...there is no sign of dampness in those limestone tiles, indicating a leak from elsewhere?
John

 

[justlikemonica]

No, I don't believe there is any leak anywhere as it would be apparent either on the ceiling below, or somewhere in the bathroom. The underfloor AAV was put there during the refurb 2 years ago, and I think the up-the-chimney one was too. Up until last weekend, we had no SVP out of the roof so I believe this may have been causing the sewer smells, but obviously now replaced by stagnant smells. Lucky me!!
Monica.

 

[Burnerman]

Obviously the stagnant smell was there all of the time, but was masked by the sewer pong.
I'd still like to be aware of the function of those AAV's though, if I were you. Maybe the guy who found them is around somewhere? Maybe you could also ask him what sort of fault the loo could have, as he originally voiced that opinion.
My opinion about other tiny leaks could still be true - just enough to moisten things but not cause a drip? Maybe thats going too far.
I'm sorting out a downstairs loo at the moment, as it happens...it pongs too but in this case its because someone (male) isn't pointing at the porcelain.....lovely! Just a dab behind the ears, etc.
Be lucky! John

 

[tryitandsee]

Perhaps the water trap to the WC is not adequate to stop the smells coming back from the soil pipe, either a bad ceramic design or whatever. When flushing, waste water may siphon the trap 'dry', thereby allowing smell to get to the room. Strongest smell being in the pan. The 'trap' water level only then gets to the right height/depth with the last dribbles of the 'flush'.

We all choose the loo for what it looks like, not for how it performs.

 

[justlikemonica]

John,

Thanks for your help.

If you ever want to know how to make a decent lemon drizzle cake I'm your girl!!

Bye,

Monica.

 

[Burnerman]

John,

Thanks for your help.

If you ever want to know how to make a decent lemon drizzle cake I'm your girl!!

Bye,

Monica.

Hey well cool
Off to make the spaghetti carbonara now...yes I'll wash me hands
Hope you get it sorted!
Cheers John