ball valve or gate valve ?

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I want to install a simple "drain-off" point from my central heating system.
Some existing pipework runs alongside an outside wall in my kitchen underneath the sink. At the lowest point, if I install a "T" joint and a valve to the pipework, run a copper pipe through the wall to the outside directly above the gully in the yard, what kind of "valve" should I use, BALL or GATE ?
 
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Gate valves will leak, but give a good unrestricted flow. Try "taps" like you use for a garden hose, good flow, watertight, and will let you put a hose on for draining.
 
Er, what's wrong with a standard drain off cock? After all, they're designed for draining off...
 
Softus said:
Er, what's wrong with a standard drain off cock? After all, they're designed for draining off...

Nothing really ..but, is it ok to fit it outside ?

I suppose I could fit both ... ball valve inside and drain off cock outside !
 
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Softus said:
Er, what's wrong with a standard drain off cock? After all, they're designed for draining off...

I was thinking they don't give a very good flow. A full bore drain would be good for getting sediment out (not that I've got one myself, just weedy little combined drain-offs and lockshields on the ground floor, due to loop-downs).
 
spud1962 said:
Softus said:
Er, what's wrong with a standard drain off cock? After all, they're designed for draining off...
Nothing really ..but, is it ok to fit it outside ?
Yes. If you're concerned about freezing, make sure that you use copper all the way to the pipes wherein heated water flows, and make the DOC a little hat to wear.

spud1962 said:
I suppose I could fit both ... ball valve inside and drain off cock outside !
That smacks of overkill.

JohnD said:
I was thinking they don't give a very good flow.
For the 15 minutes every 5 years that you might be draining down, is good flow really that important?

JohnD said:
A full bore drain would be good for getting sediment out (not that I've got one myself, just weedy little combined drain-offs and lockshields on the ground floor, due to loop-downs).
Er, sediment? In a CH system? Where would that be coming from? I mean, you have added a chemical inhibitor, haven't you?
 
Softus said:
Er, sediment? In a CH system? Where would that be coming from? I mean, you have added a chemical inhibitor, haven't you?

Coming from before I bought the house, of course! Plus when I was laid up and unable to climb into the loft for a couple of years, I had a running ball valve that washed all the inhibitor out.
 
I'm getting very confused - are you living with spud1962?

JohnD said:
[Sediment]Coming from before I bought the house, of course! Plus when I was laid up and unable to climb into the loft for a couple of years
Sorry to hear about your unablement, JohnD.

JohnD said:
I had a running ball valve that washed all the inhibitor out.
How does that work? The water would just go straight out of the overflow warning pipe, rather than dilute the primary water, would it not?

In any case, you'd have to drain down to fit the DOC, so the sediment would be removed at that stage, so no need for any other type of valve afterwards.
 
Spud1962:

If this is your heating system water you're planning to drain off, then there SHOULD be a drain valve on your boiler. Snoop around your boiler and you should find it. If you can't find a drain valve, but do find a place where you can screw a pipe into your boiler, I would plumb a ball valve in series with a "sillcock" (pronounced "a valve with a male hose thread on the outlet") so you can attach a hose to drain your boiler into a floor drain. The upstream ball valve will allow you to replace a leaking washer in the sillcock during the winter when you don't want to drain your heating system to do that.

Also, use the money you were thinking of spending on putting that hole in your wall (and caulking around it) to install a short 1/8 nipple, 1/8 inch ball valve and 1/8 inch air vent on the two highest elevation radiators in your house. (Make sure you get ball valves and not just petcocks. Petcocks are inexpensive, but they'll seize up before too long, and you'll be replacing them with a proper ball valve.)

With those ball valves in place, when you need to drain your heating system to do repairs you can store the water in some empty 5 gallon pails. Then, after the repair is done, simply carry those 5 gallon pails up to the highest elevation radiator in your house and siphon that water back into your heating system. You just need to replace the air vent screwed into the top of that 1/8 inch ball valve with a 1/8 inch hose barb fitting onto which you can push the siphon hose.

Use the other 1/8 inch ball valve to allow the air in the system to bleed off as the syphon refills the system.

That way, you're not adding dissolved oxygen and hardness to your heating system when you refill it. The dissolved oxygen and hardness will form rust and scale, respectively, inside your boiler.

And, this way you refill your system to the correct pressure even if you don't have a pressure gauge on your boiler (or if you don't know how to use it). Also, siphoning the old water back in also allows you an ideal opportunity to check the concentration of corrosion inhibitor in your heating water and to add more if necessary.

Any place listed under "Hose Fittings" in your telephone directory will either sell 1/8 inch ball valves or know who does.

Here in North America, 1/8 inch is the standard size for radiator air vents. I don't know if they use a different (or metric) size in the UK.
 
spud said:
what kind of "valve" should I use, BALL or GATE ?
Jeez.....how complicated an answer does that question merit? Just fit a couple of 15mm ball valves of decent quality (i.e. that will work 10 years down the line, even with a collection of sludge upstream). Sorry softus, but don't use normal drain valves - they're unreliable, leaky and fiddly to use.

You only need one external pipe to drain (for neatness) so you can tee the valve outlets together if you like. Locate the drain valves a little away from the circulation pipes so that they aren't subjected to high temperatures. Ideally operate the drain valves briefly (1 second) every year or so to stop them seizing up.
 
DON'T use ball valves of the small isolating, screwdriver operated variety. Hopeless.
Full Flow ball valves are good if quality OK. Peglers from Screwfix or Plumbcenter own brand. Many cheapies will leak throuh the stem if used much.

There are fine too:
http://www.bes.ltd.uk 13180
13180.gif


Normal drain cocks are pretty poor. If you want a discrete fitting they're neatest, but stick to peglers, prestex, conex.
 

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