Bedroom floor - boards, my plan
- Thread starter ChilliBob
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I've sanded floors with a belt sander - obviously it takes longer than a floor sander, and you're working on your knees, but you have more control.
If the floor is already varnished, are you sure it hasn't been sanded before? If it has, you might want to go at it less aggressively, which is another vote for a belt sander. I wouldn't use an edge or orbital sander as it will take forever.
I agree that oils and waxes can produce a more natural finish than varnish. However, varnish is a great deal easier to apply. Water based (Diamond Hard and so on) won't affect the colour of the boards but I think can look a bit plasticky after a few coats. My preferred method is 3 coats of this:
http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/ronseal-ultratough-matt-coat---750ml-032035
It's a very hard-wearing solvent-based polyeurethane, but being solvent based it will deepen the colour of your boards slightly.
Cheers
Richard
If the floor is already varnished, are you sure it hasn't been sanded before? If it has, you might want to go at it less aggressively, which is another vote for a belt sander. I wouldn't use an edge or orbital sander as it will take forever.
I agree that oils and waxes can produce a more natural finish than varnish. However, varnish is a great deal easier to apply. Water based (Diamond Hard and so on) won't affect the colour of the boards but I think can look a bit plasticky after a few coats. My preferred method is 3 coats of this:
http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/ronseal-ultratough-matt-coat---750ml-032035
It's a very hard-wearing solvent-based polyeurethane, but being solvent based it will deepen the colour of your boards slightly.
Cheers
Richard
By belt sander I'm guessing you mean the ones which are of similar size to an orbital but just with a continually rotating belt? - I'm guessing I'd hire rather than purchase?
It's varnished (but looks a bit horrible!) so it may have been sanded before, it's not very smooth so at any rate the varnish needs to be removed.
The additional control is tempting, however, a 3x4m room, with a belt sander, on my knees, is that likely to take forever and a day? Obviously it'll take longer than a floor sander but I'm just not sure how long at the moment!
It's varnished (but looks a bit horrible!) so it may have been sanded before, it's not very smooth so at any rate the varnish needs to be removed.
The additional control is tempting, however, a 3x4m room, with a belt sander, on my knees, is that likely to take forever and a day? Obviously it'll take longer than a floor sander but I'm just not sure how long at the moment!
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I've done several floors of that kind of size - I can't remember how long it took, but certainly not forever and a day. Personally I'd buy one (well, I've got one), as they're extremely useful.
Cheers
Richard
Cheers
Richard
So something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decke...=1441882739&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=betl+sander
But I'm guessing this one's a bit pants?
IT looks like the Matika is about double the price, but hire of the floor sander for one day is about 60 quid as it is. Hmm, tricky. We were intending on doing two more floors upstairs at least...
But I'm guessing this one's a bit pants?
IT looks like the Matika is about double the price, but hire of the floor sander for one day is about 60 quid as it is. Hmm, tricky. We were intending on doing two more floors upstairs at least...
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Well it won't last as long as a Makita, but it's about the same cost as hiring one and you could sell it on Ebay afterwards. It might cope with doing a floor if you gave it a few rests so it didn't overheat 
I wouldn't buy one myself, though to be fair I have no experience of the quality of current Black & Decker tools. They were always a bit cheap and cheerful. In my experience it's worth paying a bit more to get a good tool for the job (which is to say, I don't pay top whack because I'm not a tradesman and don't use the tools every day, so they don't get the wear).
I notice Screwfix do an Erbauer 4" one for £110:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-erb378sdr-1200w-compact-4-belt-sander-230-240v/56322
I've not used that, but I have an Erbauer reciprocating saw that's given good service.
Cheers
Richard
I wouldn't buy one myself, though to be fair I have no experience of the quality of current Black & Decker tools. They were always a bit cheap and cheerful. In my experience it's worth paying a bit more to get a good tool for the job (which is to say, I don't pay top whack because I'm not a tradesman and don't use the tools every day, so they don't get the wear).I notice Screwfix do an Erbauer 4" one for £110:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-erb378sdr-1200w-compact-4-belt-sander-230-240v/56322
I've not used that, but I have an Erbauer reciprocating saw that's given good service.
Cheers
Richard
The Matika you posted can be had for under 100 delivered. I'm really stuck to know what to do now!
On one hand the floor sander thing seems like the obvious choice to zip through it quickly, however, I'm wondering if it's as quick or as easy as I think? I reckon once I actually start doing it that it'll be obviously much quicker but the whole hiring it picking it up (getting it up stairs?!) and learning how to use it... hmm.
Using an orbital with p40 and some pressure I could get the boards to 'clean' in about 30 seconds for a patch about 15cm long...
On one hand the floor sander thing seems like the obvious choice to zip through it quickly, however, I'm wondering if it's as quick or as easy as I think? I reckon once I actually start doing it that it'll be obviously much quicker but the whole hiring it picking it up (getting it up stairs?!) and learning how to use it... hmm.
Using an orbital with p40 and some pressure I could get the boards to 'clean' in about 30 seconds for a patch about 15cm long...
Once you get going with the sanding, you'll soon get into a rhythm.
Geraldthehamster - your point (ChilliBob, this is off-topic from your thread so perhaps I should be putting it in a seperate thread!) about water-based varnish (or lacquers as they are termed in the trade) being inferior to solvent-based equivalents is a common misconception. Back in the 80s I would have agreed with you, but the rate of development in chemical engineering has resulted in many water based lacquers far surpassing the durability of the solvent-based products they replaced. Remember that water or solvents are in the main just the vehicle to get the product in the formulation from the container to the surface being coated. Both evaporate to leave the coating product. Each has pros and cons (water evaporates faster than solvents so you can finish the job faster, solvents react with wood turning the fibres yellow/orange, water doesn't, water raises the grain, solvents don't etc etc.
I haven't tried the Ronseal product you link to but professional manufacturers like Bona or Pallman have a range of floor lacquers to suit environments from domestic bedrooms to shops to restaurants to hotel lobbies. They are in an entirely different league to Ronseal which is essentially a consumer DIY product. The word lacquer also conjures up images of high-gloss finishes but this is misleading - the sheen levels range from almost invisible dead flat to matt to satin to gloss to piano gloss with countless sheens in-between. And this is the point about number of coats - the chemical engineering is now so precise that applying more coats than is recommended, apart from looking shoddy, takes you over the peak performance curve. In that too much product build-up and it starts to chip and scratch more easily.
Geraldthehamster - your point (ChilliBob, this is off-topic from your thread so perhaps I should be putting it in a seperate thread!) about water-based varnish (or lacquers as they are termed in the trade) being inferior to solvent-based equivalents is a common misconception. Back in the 80s I would have agreed with you, but the rate of development in chemical engineering has resulted in many water based lacquers far surpassing the durability of the solvent-based products they replaced. Remember that water or solvents are in the main just the vehicle to get the product in the formulation from the container to the surface being coated. Both evaporate to leave the coating product. Each has pros and cons (water evaporates faster than solvents so you can finish the job faster, solvents react with wood turning the fibres yellow/orange, water doesn't, water raises the grain, solvents don't etc etc.
I haven't tried the Ronseal product you link to but professional manufacturers like Bona or Pallman have a range of floor lacquers to suit environments from domestic bedrooms to shops to restaurants to hotel lobbies. They are in an entirely different league to Ronseal which is essentially a consumer DIY product. The word lacquer also conjures up images of high-gloss finishes but this is misleading - the sheen levels range from almost invisible dead flat to matt to satin to gloss to piano gloss with countless sheens in-between. And this is the point about number of coats - the chemical engineering is now so precise that applying more coats than is recommended, apart from looking shoddy, takes you over the peak performance curve. In that too much product build-up and it starts to chip and scratch more easily.
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getitdone, I didn't mean to suggest that one or the other was superior, just that they give different results. I think water based floor varnishes look a bit insipid, and plasticky.
Chillibob, it's up to you, but if you're just doing one floor I'd suggest a belt sander. From memory I went along 2 or 3 boards at a time, along the boards but with the sander at right angles, with a 80 grit belt, to take the top off and level the floor, then the same with the sander parallel to the boards to remove the marks from the first sanding, then again with 100 grit, then 120 grit and job done.
Also try to keep the sander moving, to avoid creating pits and ridges. Obviously this is a much greater risk with a professional floor sander, as you can stop to mop your brow and end up in the room below
Chillibob, it's up to you, but if you're just doing one floor I'd suggest a belt sander. From memory I went along 2 or 3 boards at a time, along the boards but with the sander at right angles, with a 80 grit belt, to take the top off and level the floor, then the same with the sander parallel to the boards to remove the marks from the first sanding, then again with 100 grit, then 120 grit and job done.
Also try to keep the sander moving, to avoid creating pits and ridges. Obviously this is a much greater risk with a professional floor sander, as you can stop to mop your brow and end up in the room below
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Indeed it is up to me I'm just not decided what I should do! - I'm attracted to the idea of having a powerful new toy to add to my arsenal that's for sure!! Hmm, what to do...
The fact that I've got other rooms to do upstairs, which also are small but look decent, makes it seem to make sense. I've considered boards downstairs but they're a bit knackered and it's a through lounge, so I think a floor sander would be better there.
The fact that I've got other rooms to do upstairs, which also are small but look decent, makes it seem to make sense. I've considered boards downstairs but they're a bit knackered and it's a through lounge, so I think a floor sander would be better there.
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Buy plenty of belts...
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Last time I checked they were cheaper at Toolstation.
You'll need to spend your money if you want to get the job done...
You'll need to spend your money if you want to get the job done...
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