Best Eurolock Cylinder to Fit?

[roberta1000]

My wife wants to change the front door lock (and maybe the back door lock too) so that we can have the same key to operate both. The back door has a Cisa Astral and we could get a new cylinder for the front door keyed to match. The lock company has recommended the newer Avocet ABS as being a stronger lock. We'd need to get 2 of them of course so is it worthwhile or are they just touting for a sale and I'd be just as well getting a second Astral?
Thanks.

 

[roberta1000]

Noone?

 

[Alarm]

They probably support the other cylinder better, price isn't that much different is it.
And you`ll have total security and peace of mind knowing that you have the only key copies.

 

[Hixxy02]

Don't buy a euro cylinder lock buy the abs one. The abs have better security features. If the public knew how easy they were to get into then everybody would be out buying and replacing there locks with abs ones.

 

[Alarm]

The OP is talking about cylinders and maybe one new lockcase.
Both the ABS and cisa have anti snap.
Both can still be bumped.

But your talking about a cylinder not a lock, try and get it correct.

Or have you got some new found information?

 

[Hixxy02]

Just to get this correct the op asked about cylinder locks? I may have got this wrong. As I understood the question the op was asking about changing a cylinder lock to use the same keys and should they buy a new lock to match an existing lock or 2 new locks. Like I said I may be wrong.

The abs locks CANNOT be snapped or bumped all other locks can. This making abs the safest locks on the Market. They can still be made "assessable shall we say" in the right hands.

 

[Alarm]

Are you a rep?

Check out the "Dutch" bumping sites, ABS is easily defeated in the right hands.

And it is a CYLINDER not a lock, it fits into a lock.

PS if the ABS is fitted back to front ( easily done by one not in the know) it can be snapped as well.
Others have anti-snap both sides.

 

[Hixxy02]

No not a rep.
I'm not sure on your background but I have Just spent the day on a gaining entry course and we were shown in depth ways to gain entry in to properties.
I'm not getting into the ins and outs of "how" to do it or what is readily available on the Internet.
All im getting at is After today all my locks will be changed by the end of the week to abs ones.

 

[Alarm]

A day on a gaining entry course, was it expensive?
I started Locksmithing in 1979, eventually going over to electronic security.
Some of the tools you probably used I helped to design or first import here.

Abs are not the only and there are better cylinders ( you seem to miss that part again). Others cannot be snapped full stop, not just leave the remainder in the cylinder.

Oh yeah, I used to train the Met Police in fast entry techniques. Not my choice I was chosen by my then director to be the course instructor.

I suggest you have a nosey about the products fully available before making statements about products, and I mean that in a professional way.

Managed to pick open a Brahma yet?

 

[roberta1000]

Not wanting to get into a squabble here as I'm only interested in fitting whichever eurolock cylinder is currently the hardest to break into. So far I've been told that the Cisa Astral was the best available but has been overtaken by the ABS Avocet. I already have 1 Cisa so the question is whether to duplicate it or to replace both with ABS.

Of course if there's a better one available I'd rather have that!

It seems quite difficult to get objective information as the SoldSecure site only tells you whether something passes or fails (and doesn't tell you what the test actually was anyway) rather than telling you which is 'best'.

I'm not too bothered about the cost of the cylinders as they aren't expensive anyway. Cheers all for any other info.

 

[Hixxy02]

A day on a gaining entry course, was it expensive?
I started Locksmithing in 1979, eventually going over to electronic security.
Some of the tools you probably used I helped to design or first import here.

Abs are not the only and there are better cylinders ( you seem to miss that part again). Others cannot be snapped full stop, not just leave the remainder in the cylinder.

Oh yeah, I used to train the Met Police in fast entry techniques. Not my choice I was chosen by my then director to be the course instructor.

I suggest you have a nosey about the products fully available before making statements about products, and I mean that in a professional way.

.
Managed to pick open a Brahma yet?

Nope was not expensive dint cost me anything as its through work. Tools we used are in every body's tool box at home nothing special or technical or imported as you say..
If u used to train the met then you prob know the context of the course. I'm not doubting your knowledge as a lock smith as you obviously know your stuff but the original starter asked which lock to purchase and was the sales person trying to tout for a sale? From this I gave the answer in my opinion. If the question was different i prob would not of replyed. Remember this is a diy discussion forum not a technical locksmiths forum. In which case I would not of replied as I'm not knowledgable enough and I'm no lock smith and don't make out to be one.



Managed to pick open a Brahma? Nope why would I? Your totally missing the point of the discussion. Like I said I'm not a lock smith, however I do have some vast equipment to hand and if we wanna get in we will one way or another, So in reply to that statement yes if needed I could open a door that's locked by a brahma we would.

 

[Hixxy02]

Not wanting to get into a squabble here as I'm only interested in fitting whichever eurolock cylinder is currently the hardest to break into. So far I've been told that the Cisa Astral was the best available but has been overtaken by the ABS Avocet. I already have 1 Cisa so the question is whether to duplicate it or to replace both with ABS.

Of course if there's a better one available I'd rather have that!

It seems quite difficult to get objective information as the SoldSecure site only tells you whether something passes or fails (and doesn't tell you what the test actually was anyway) rather than telling you which is 'best'.

I'm not too bothered about the cost of the cylinders as they aren't expensive anyway. Cheers all for any other info.

We were told yesterday the safest at the moment is the abs avocet. Some insurance companies are requesting these to be fitted as part of your policy. Have a read of the small print or give them a ring.

I will be changing all mine this week for abs.
Be careful if buying off line tho.

 

[roberta1000]

I will be changing all mine this week for abs.
Be careful if buying off line tho.

Thanks for that.
Yes - I've thought about the on-line dangers so I plan to get a relation who lives in a different town to order them on my behalf and pay him for them.

 

[Alarm]

As before it is cylinders we are talking about not locks.

The Cisa is a good choice and if you have keys already will save you a little, but I would advise if these were fitted before you moved in to change them as you never know who might have a key.
Abs is good also, but you could look at Grundman, Kaaba or a whole host which have the same characteristics.

Again I have to stress if you are fitting the ABS cylinders and you put them in the wrong way around they will not be anti-snap, an easy error to make.
If your getting the locksmith to do this have him check the lockcase is actually graded high enough as well. No point having the best cylinders and a £5 lockcase.

Also if you are checking with your insurers ask if the cylinder can be one sided anti-snap, although the reply you will get will probably be "What?"

The test is basically a timed effort at getting the lock or the cylinder open with a "basic" tool kit that you could carry about unseen. This could include a cordless drill or other items. The lock or Cylinder could be opened but if it is outside the test parameter it will pass the grading.

No squabble, just pointing out the facts.

 

[leew2]

I had a lenghty look into europrofile cydlinders. I came to the conclusion that the europrofile design itself is genrally crap as the fixing hole is in the thinnest, weakest part of the lock meaning that almost any europrofile lock can be snapped if enough force is applied to it. The ABS is one of the better locks I came accross as it attempts to protect against snapping with a spring loaded pin which locks the cam in place should it be snapped. If you have serious money then look at Abloy Protec lock, this is a disc detainer lock meaning it's impossible to bump and as far as I know, has never been successfully picked. If you can, go for a decent lever or detainer lock such as the Chubb 3g110. If you have a uPVC door though then you are mostly stuck with the europrofile. There is a lock avalible called the ERA vectis which is a uPVC multipoint lock which uses a lever lock rather than a europrofile but while it's a good product on paper the lock itself is not great, the levers being small and easy to pick.