Biasi M96.29SM/C issues

[neilster]

Hi Forum.. sorry long post but want to get the facts down..

had a Biasi M96.29SM/C fitted 3 years ago.. about 2 weeks ago we noticed that when in the shower it was going hot, cold, hot, cold etc every 20/30 seconds.. Was due to go to spain for a week so left it till I come back to sort..

Wednesday 8th

When I returned we tried the shower again and this time it just went hot for a bit then cold.. looked at the boiler and it had the lock out light flashing and had to press the reset button to get things going again... Called in a heating engineer..

Thursday 9th

when he turned up (wife was there not me) he spent an hour looking over it before saying it was the Overheat Thermostat ... he removed it and cleaned it in some way (looks like he took a scraper to it) .. when he replaced it the boiler was totaly dead so he went and got a new one.. Once he fitted this new part the boiler was "working" again back to its original fault of the lock out light.. He then spent another 1 hour 30 minutes looking at the boiler and then said the PCB is "faulty".. bill so far is £52 call out plus 5X £32 per half hour + 11.72 for new part + vat (not paid him anything yet) he then wants another 200 quid +vat to supply and fit PCB. total 423+vat

Just wanted hot water back so said fine if thats the issue then just get it sorted.. He phoned for a new PCB but (luckily I think) it was out of stock... Said he will order it and it and fit Monday...

Friday 10th

He had left his meter at my house.. So came round for it, while he was here he wanted "one more look before deciding it was a PCB issue") He said he rang biasi last night and that they said it was doubtful it was PCB as termpreture was going up to 90 degrees and then cutting out and therefore was a heat exchanger issue.. He said he thought it was a PCB issue as he had seen the gas pressure too high blow them (is this a load of bull? and then said my pressure was on the lower scale of normal but OK so thought that was the issue orignally) He wants to come back Monday and "just" charge me on the 30 minute rate to try and clean it... No doubt he has charged me another 32 pounds for tellijng me that!!!

Ok.. I'm not shy of DIY and had a good old google (found this forum) .. I first thought it was membrane gone but can see that the micro switch is being pressed against and stays pressed no problem. The next most common issue I saw was the heat exchanger being clogged.. This was 10 minutes on these forum that this guy expects me to pay 223+vat so far to get to the same conclusion..

I'm very tempted to call him tomorrow and tell him to not bother coming back as have lost total confidence in him.. Im sure I'm looking at another hour of labour atleast for him to try and clean it out.. I think I might just aswell go and buy a new exchanger and fit it myself..

OK questions..

Does what this "engineer" has performed so far warrant paying £223+vat.. From what I have seen he has replaced a part that may of been near to end of life but was working.. and spent 2.5 hours getting no nearer to a solution before calling biasi to put him straight.. I'm tempted to tell him to bolt and give him a bit of cash for his troubles, but I'm sure the law is on his side

If I do this myself .. can I try cleaning it myself ? If so with what? i take it is limescalled up? or just go for a new part?

If I decide to get someone else in what is the best way of finding a good engineer in southend, essex?

Just glad that PCB wasn't in stock as that would be another 200 pound thrown down the drain

Thanks in appreciation..

Neil.

 

[DP]

Typical post highlighting the reason I choose not to fit boilers or try to compete in a race to see who can offer the cheapest quote (no one these days looks for an estimate).

Lot of customers go looking at the bottom line choosing to ignore the meat on the bone. End result is they often get cheapest of cheap with no essential 'trimmings'.

Above post seems to be a typical instal where good practice flew out of the window when price for the job was accepted. While nothing wrong with the boiler fitted, it is cheapest of cheap boiler (to keep price down), system debris (through design or ignorance) has settled in the DHW HE. I say design as it might be a ploy to offer a price that is more likely to accepted by a client (so no thorough cleaning of system to remove damaging sediment). It could also be ignorance as constant top ups can render a system useless.

A cure would be to get the system chemically cleaned and treated but you need to know what you are looking for or it will simply be transfer of funds from one pocket to another with poor or no long term cure.

I am on the side of the person who came to look at the boiler as he has to charge for looking that the boiler. He has been sitting on the fence until he is sure parts suspected really are necessary. He has sought advice from the makers to come to sensible conclusion (all heating engineers do that). It is possible the part changed was corroded and ready to fail or broke when he looked at it- talk to the chap . This person may well be you knight in shining armour to fix your problem (he goes the extra mile to come to a solid conclusion)

 

[clf-gas]

Not a personal attack DP but I have to disagree with siding with parts swapper.

Charging a call out fee of 52 quid and then 32 quid per half hour your fault finding skills need to be up to scratch.

I had thought PHE within first few lines of Niels post, admittedly thought about thermistors aswell as aps dropping out. These things would of been checked well within first half hour.

Neils wife would of said what the symtems of fault where/had been, the "engineer" on site listens to customer explination of fault and procedes with checks from there.

Would of been embarrasing when he swapped PCB and got same problem, though GV would of been the next swap along with DV.

Agree we cant say he may or may not of damaged HLS, but a simple check with the meter he left on site would of shown him a clue

223+vat for swapping an HLS is in anyones book on here over charged.

Neil, cleaning of the heat exchanger is a relatively easy job, allow a couple of hours for this. Do get a price first, I personally would charge around 150 quid though geography depicts prices. As to your current dilema the ball sir is in your court.

 

[bengasman]

The symptoms seem like a classic case of corrosion collected in the boiler due to poor install and lack of maintenance. Biasis do sometimes have funny electrical problems, so without being there it is hard to tell. Wouldn't take me more than half an hour to say for sure, hence your repair man was not very good.
Personally, I don't charge if I don't cure the problem, but if you agreed to pay him X per half hour, than that is what you have to pay.
You probably don't like to hear this, but it looks like a cheap install has turned around to bite you in the ass; my best guess is that you will spend hundreds of pounds before this is half sorted out

 

[neilster]

Hmm ok... I took the plunge and have been flushing out the HE all afternoon.. have got quite a lot of back flaky bits out of it.. put it all back together and when turned back on a get a single green light for a second or 2 and then get 2 flashing lights which acording to the manual is "Faulty c.h temperature probe NTC". Cant see how that could go faulty by cleaning that out.. Any ideas?

 

[Legion]

You have bought a cheap boiler probably installed at a rock bottom price, you now have to pay the penalty for going for a cheap option. hard to diagnose a lump of crap over internet, ring technical helpline if you don`t trust any engineer, they might help you even though your warranty has run out. It`s going to cost you in the long run. You pays yer money, yer takes yer chance Guv.

 

[bengasman]

Hmm ok... I took the plunge and have been flushing out the HE all afternoon.. have got quite a lot of back flaky bits out of it.. put it all back together and when turned back on a get a single green light for a second or 2 and then get 2 flashing lights which acording to the manual is "Faulty c.h temperature probe NTC". Cant see how that could go faulty by cleaning that out.. Any ideas?

Probably cleaned the wrong hex

 

[Agile]

Charging a call out fee of 52 quid and then 32 quid per half hour your fault finding skills need to be up to scratch.

I have to say that i must disagree with that !

That charging regime benifits you if your skills are NOT up to scratch as it takes you longer and you get paid more.

We charge a fixed price diagnostic fee ( £84 in our local area ) and if it took us a long time then thats our bad luck.

However, that scenariop is obviously the plate HE and we swap them for £136 inc. including our diagnostic fee.

The Biasi boilers are very good products and are sold at reasonable prices. But like all boilers do need to be fitted to a clean system.

If anyone gets a second rate installer then they will not clean the system and this problem will occur. We charge £840 to install a boiler, cowboys do it for £200 upwards!

If you cannot find a competent engineer then call the manufacturer and they will give you details of their local service agent or offer you their service team if they have staff engineers.

Tony Glazier

 

[Agile]

Charging a call out fee of 52 quid and then 32 quid per half hour your fault finding skills need to be up to scratch.

I have to say that i must disagree with that !

That charging regime benifits you if your skills are NOT up to scratch as it takes you longer and you get paid more.

We charge a fixed price diagnostic fee ( £84 in our local area ) and if it took us a long time then thats our bad luck.

However, that scenario is obviously that the plate HE and we swap them for £136 inc. including our diagnostic fee.

The Biasi boilers are very good products and are sold at reasonable prices. But like all boilers do need to be fitted to a clean system.

If anyone gets a second rate installer then they will not clean the system and this problem will occur. We charge £840 to install a boiler, cowboys do it for £200 upwards!

If you cannot find a competent engineer then call the manufacturer and they will give you details of their local service agent or offer you their service team if they have staff engineers.

Tony Glazier

 

[glasgowgas]

another bump onto yer post count View media item 11691

 

[neilster]

I know its the cheapest of the cheap now... but at the time I had no idea.. Someone gave me a price.. it seemed not too high so paid..

Anyway..

Changed the C.H thermister and its working like a charm now.. Getting someone to put sludge remover in for a few weeks and then put a magnaclean on..

Rang heating engineer to say what I have done and he has agreed to just charge me call out fee and 11 quid for the part he changed.. so fair play to him.

I'm just so glad that PCB wasnt in stock as I would of had a 500 pound bill now and still the same issue!!

 

[neilster]

Charging a call out fee of 52 quid and then 32 quid per half hour your fault finding skills need to be up to scratch.

I have to say that i must disagree with that !

That charging regime benifits you if your skills are NOT up to scratch as it takes you longer and you get paid more.

We charge a fixed price diagnostic fee ( £84 in our local area ) and if it took us a long time then thats our bad luck.

Tony Glazier

I think thats a much fairer way.. In my mind I still find it hard how people can justify wanting 64+vat per hour but if thats the going rate I can't do much about that.. But.. if I'm paying someone that rate I expect them to be finding the problem a whole lot quicker and not randomly just trying to swap PCBs out. If the PCB was in stock I would now be paying for that.. 64 pound an hour for that is just plain wrong!!

According to his website this guy has 20 years experiance.. last time I use trustatrader

 

[bengasman]

... In my mind I still find it hard how people can justify wanting 64+vat per hour but if thats the going rate I can't do much about that..

The great thing about a marketeconomy: you don't have to justify your rate, all you have to do is ask. The reverse also works, you don't HAVE TO pay £64 or £94 an hour, just say no thank you.

But.. if I'm paying someone that rate I expect them to be finding the problem a whole lot quicker and not randomly just trying to swap PCBs out. If the PCB was in stock I would now be paying for that.. 64 pound an hour for that is just plain wrong!!

Again market economy; you are free to accept his conditions of £64 an hour to try and repair it, success or not.
Personally, I work on no-cure, no-pay basis; you could find somebody that does the same.

According to his website this guy has 20 years experiance.. last time I use trustatrader

But apparantly, he didn't learn a lot during those 20 years

 

[Agile]

Our fixed diagnostic charge of £84 is all we get for diagnosing the fault!

When accountants charge about £110 an hour and solicitors £200-£400 an hour then £84 sounds very reasonable for a technical expert to me.

Its also all we get for travelling and in London that can take up to an hour to get there and the same to get back so the total time taken can be 3 hours which brings the hourly rate down to £28 !

We expect to identify the fault in about 10 minutes and to fix it within an hour in most cases BUT we can relax and spend more time if the client or the installation is interesting.

We also do a basic service and particularly check and reset the gas parameters and a performanance check to ensure that after the repair the boiler is working correctly and there are no other issues.

Tony Glazier