Bloody Apologists!!

[supersparks]

spot on mate.

this country is way too PC and its becoming the downfull of society

 

[nstreet]

Nstreet, How dare you compare what the Allies did and what the Japanese did, of course innocent civilians got caught up in the fighting, the bombing of cities to hit industry in an age of inaccurate aerial bombing was inevitably going to result in civilian deaths. However for you to even make that statement smacks of a total lack of knowledge of the reality of the events that occured during those dark years.

The point I was making was that in war not everything happens by the rule book. We humilated and allegedly tortured Iraqi prisoners in the very 'small' war in Iraq. We are keeping people captive in cuba with no evidence or charge. Not the same league as the japanese attrocities or others that happened in ww1/ww2 but it is on a smaller scale and goes to show that there are those in all walks of life that are capable of doing unjust things. We just see our own side of things.

No amount of money is going to compensate these people for what they went through, it wont erase their painfull memories or erase the physical scars.

None of us have any control on how our taxes are spent, thats down to the government. We the people vote them in and I dont see anyone making great waves on these issues or rebellion by the people to make any great changes. Most of us are quite content to sit on our fat ar5es.

We all appreciate the great price paid by our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers, just because we want a better future doesn't mean we don't care and dont remember. Until Horishima was mentioned on the news in the last couple of days, most of us probably never gave the japanese attrocities a thought, did we?.

Changing the history books in their favor is a distastful thing to do. Buts its only happening in Japan not the rest of the world, so its not like it will be forgotton for all time. Having said that the history that is taught in our schools these days is the bare minimum when it comes to the world wars etc and most kids have little to no knolwedge of them (or more to the point are not interested because they cant relate to it like prior generations who had family members involved).

 

[Moz]

My blood boils regarding this lets just forget what them evil b*stard japs did ,
My Grandfather Bill was a POW in Burma ,he surfered terribly an was never the same man when he came home after VJ Day,he never spoke of his time in the Prison Death camps ,but my Gran said he would scream an howl every night with terrible nightmares ,
she said it was horrendous to see her man such a broken wreck ,
he went off to War to Fight the Fascists an went from a 16 stone 6'ft hunk , to a skinny nervous shaking (Malaria/Deng Fever,survivor!)broken very guilt ridden (why had he survived an his friends died !)old man...

He Died in the early 60s a sad frail ghost of his former self ..

The things my gran an her sister would tell(whos sister's hubby was in a Jap Work Camp in Thailand) me them evil nips did to them in the camps is disgusting ..

I wish they had dropped 1000s of Atom bombs all over Japan ..

btw last year China made a formal Complaint about Japan in a UN meeting regarding the Japs rewriting of history about the Japs rape/slaughter at Nanking,saying it never happened ...

EVIL JAP SCUMBAGS

 

[oilman]

MESSAGE TO OILMAN. i read your reply to Mr FWL Engineer and not only do i think it disgusting but i believe you should apologise on here not only to us but also to those living and dead who suffered at the hands of a previously murderous race of people.

Do you now? Grow up and try some hate management therapy.

So far the whole of Britain is represented by 11 posters on this topic, not including me. Given there are 60 million in the country, and that neither those 11, nor me, have been elected, not a very representative sample is it? 5 of those 11 seem to have posted mostly hate messages recently. If there's not one group to hate, they'll find another.

You don't know what happened to members of my family, and I'm not about to parade everything in public. Just stop looking for something to hate and start looking to the future.

 

[Moz]

oilman
go have an arguement elsewhere an stop ridiculing the many who fought so you could spout your 70s pc b*llsh*T education/misinformation of my Grandad an stop dancing around on the grave/great name of my Grandad,he is more worthy than any clever lil university PC rubbish you wish to spew here...
When your family has been touched by such a tradegy as mine was due to them EVIL JAP SCUM,come talk ....
I remember my early years going to my Grandparents an seeing this frail shaking wretched old man ,
who was then lost too his old Demons ,puffing away on Park Drive Cigs ,
what always upset me was his dead souless lost eyes ,

He was friendly enough but when we left an gave him a hug he would cry like a baby an shield his eyes/face (my gran said he still feels very guilty he survived !!)
anyway this aint a flame or an attack so go have an arguement with someone who deserves it,not a rant on your stupid thoughts ...

 

[Freddie]

MESSAGE TO OILMAN. i read your reply to Mr FWL Engineer and not only do i think it disgusting but i believe you should apologise on here not only to us but also to those living and dead who suffered at the hands of a previously murderous race of people.

Do you now? Grow up and try some hate management therapy.

So far the whole of Britain is represented by 11 posters on this topic, not including me. Given there are 60 million in the country, and that neither those 11, nor me, have been elected, not a very representative sample is it? 5 of those 11 seem to have posted mostly hate messages recently. If there's not one group to hate, they'll find another.

You don't know what happened to members of my family, and I'm not about to parade everything in public. Just stop looking for something to hate and start looking to the future.

The only people i hate i those who are basically cowards but enjoy telling other people what they are but actually know nothing and then when cornered say its only a wind up.

 

[oilman]

So if anyone doesn't think as you they are wrong?


Calling someone "scum" seems to be common by some posters.

Dont wish to start a spat oilman but if you had the slightest idea of how offensive your comment is as it ridicules what that scum where really like and they have never appologised or even admitted to what they did to members of my family who were prisoners in Japan and on the Bridge over the river Kwai.

Do you expected to be hated and referred to as scum by the North American indians and the Australian Aboriginies for the things your ancestors and others did to them?

 

[Freddie]

So if anyone doesn't think as you they are wrong?

Do you expected to be hated by the North American indians and the Australian Aboriginies for the things your ancestors and others did to them?

Calling someone "scum" seems to be common by some posters.

I would certainly say what was done to those folk wrong and when the process of compensation comes up then definetly things ought to be adjusted if not put right which attempts have been made with limited success.

Trouble is with Japan untill cornered by a very angry powerfull neighbour called China, they have denied refused and re-written their history.

Now China's anger hasnt gone away and also areas of land--islands and sea which were claimed by Japan are now in the eyes of the Chinese as for the first time in their history they may be able to confront Japan in fact basically wipe the floor with them.

Maybe if the Japs had been forced to own up and repay for what they had done in the past, then this big confrontation which could drag everybody into it may not happen.

All this has nothing to do with any other part of the world at any time, this is actually living history and unfinished business from those involved which could end up as another large war just because people with your attitude to things like this call it hate--racist---anger and let the agressors off the hook.

They can still sort things out now, it may be to late for some, but it may stop others ending up the same.

 

[jasy]

Thanks Moz and Fred. I have served my country and am deeply, deeply patriotic. It is those who sour the name of those who have fought and died for our way of life and Mr Oilman you are one of those who are not deserving of an English passport . Thanks guys for your support and to oilman i say i pity you

 

[oilman]

Freddie, that was a much more reasoned post, with some valid points. Despite your probable view, I don't expect anyone to forget the things done in any war. The problem lies in anger indiscriminately directed towards the whole population. I actually would expect some form of reparation or remorse, but this is also lacking from the British government towards British soldiers who appear to be suffering the effects of exposure to substances used by their own side. Only denial available from the British government to start with, if not sustained.

The Chinese may have a case against Japan, but they also have a case against their treatment by the recent Chinese government Tienamen Square (can't spell it) and the regieme of Mao Tse Tung.

 

[Big_Spark]

Thanks Moz and Fred. I have served my country and am deeply, deeply patriotic. It is those who sour the name of those who have fought and died for our way of life and Mr Oilman you are one of those who are not deserving of an English passport . Thanks guys for your support and to oilman i say i pity you

Best words I have seen on this forum for while, Thanks Jasy, just about sums up the PC brigade and their Cowardly load of old Tosh.

Oilman, You know very little about what we are speaking of, yet you insult people, you state we hate, I do not hate the Japs, I simply think they should have been obliterated for what they did, Christ man, even the Nazi's were apalled by their actions in Nanking, there is a Statue of John Rabe, the German Ambassador to Nanjing (Nanking) for his efforst during this dark period..

Rabe and other members of the international committee meet the Japanese as they enter the city and attempt to explain the situation within the safety zone, asking that its boundaries be respected. However, their appeal will have limited effect.

"If I had not seen it with my own eyes, I would not have believed it," Rabe writes in his diary on that day. "They (Japanese soldiers) smash open windows and doors and take whatever they like. ... I watched with my own eyes as they looted the café of our German baker Herr Kiessling. ... Of the perhaps one thousand disarmed soldiers that we had quartered at the Ministry of Justice, between 400 and 500 were driven from it with their hands tied. We assume they were shot since we later heard several salvos of machine-gun fire. These events have left us frozen with horror."

The Rape of Nanjing (in Chinese, 'Nanjing Datusha' or 'Great Nanjing Massacre') results in the indiscriminate murder of between 200,000-350,000 Chinese civilians and surrendered soldiers. It is the worst single massacre of unarmed troops and civilians in the history of the 20th Century.

Japanese troops loot and burn the city and surrounding towns, destroying more than a third of the buildings. Chinese captives are tortured, burnt alive, buried alive, decapitated, bayoneted and shot en masse.

Between 20,000 and 80,000 Chinese women and girls of all ages are raped. Thousands are murdered after their ordeal. Thousands more are forced into sexual slavery. It is one of the worst ever recorded single cases of mass rape.

About 250,000 Chinese find refuge in the safety zone, which quickly becomes a permanent rather than temporary facility. Among the refugees are Chinese soldiers who were unable to leave the city during the general retreat. The Japanese demand that they be handed over and forcibly enter the safety zone on several occasions to apprehend suspects.

Rabe and his fellow zone administrators attempt to stop the atrocities occurring in the city while working to ensure that the refugees within the safety zone are fed and nursed. They also petition international governments to intervene and document the events for the world media.

Rabe uses his Nazi credentials to prevent the atrocities wherever possible. He writes repeatedly to Hitler asking that something be done to stop the killing. Along with other members of the international committee he records the actions of the Japanese troops and passes on reports to the Japanese embassy, which is also lobbied to intervene. Rabe also records his experiences in his diary.

"Groups of three to ten marauding soldiers would begin by travelling through the city and robbing whatever there was to steal," he writes at one point. "They would continue by raping the women and girls and killing everything and everyone that offered any resistance, attempted to run away from them, or simply happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. During their misdeeds, no difference was made between adults and children. There were girls under the age of eight and women over the age of 70 who were raped and then, in the most brutal way possible, knocked down and beat up. We found corpses of women on beer glasses and others who had been lanced by bamboo shoots. I saw the victims with my own eyes - I talked to some of them right before their deaths and had their bodies brought to the morgue at Kulo Hospital so that I could be personally convinced that all of these reports had touched on the truth.

"You would have thought it impossible, but the raping of women even occurred right in the middle of the women's camp in our zone, which held between 5,000 and 10,000 women. We few foreigners couldn't be at all places all the time in order to protect against these atrocities. One was powerless against these monsters who were armed to the teeth and who shot down anyone who tried to defend themselves. They only had respect for us foreigners - but nearly every one of us was close to being killed dozens of times. We asked ourselves mutually, 'How much longer can we maintain this 'bluff'?'"

On 19 December Rabe writes, "Six Japanese climbed over my garden wall and attempted to open the gates from the inside. When I arrive and shine my flashlight in the face of one of the bandits, he reaches for his pistol, but his hand drops quickly enough when I yell at him and hold my swastika armband under his nose. Then, on my orders, all six scramble back over the wall. My gates will never be opened to riffraff like that. … The 300 to 400 refugees here in my garden - I no longer know how many there really are - Have used straw mats, old doors, and sheets of tin to build huts for a little protection from the snow and cold."

On 24 December he writes, "I have had to look at so many corpses over the last few weeks that I can keep my nerves in check even when viewing these horrible cases. It really doesn't leave you in a 'Christmas' mood; but I wanted to see these atrocities with my own eyes, so that I can speak as an eyewitness later. A man cannot be silent about this kind of cruelty!"

And on 30 January, "My car is stopped on Hankow Road by a group of about 50 Chinese, who asked me to rescue a woman whom a Japanese soldier had led away to rape. … I find the house completely looted, the floor covered with all sorts of debris. In one of the open rooms is a coffin on a bier, and in the room adjoining, lying on a floor covered with straw and junk, I see the soldier, who is about to rape the woman. I manage to pull the soldier out of the room and into the entryway. When he sees all the Chinese and my car, he pulls away and disappears somewhere in the ruins of nearby buildings. The crowd stands at the door, murmuring, but quickly disperses when I tell them to, so as not to attract more Japanese soldiers."

The 1,200-page diary is forgotten after the Second World War, but will later resurface to furnish proof that the atrocities at Nanjing did in fact occur.

It is estimated that more than 250,000 are saved by the actions of Rabe and the other zone administrators, who are subjected to constant threats and intimidation, including violence, from the Japanese.

The atrocities at Nanjing set an example that leaves the Chinese population terrorised and passive to further Japanese advances.

Read this from the Rabe website, in case you don't believ it I suggest you buy the published works that was his Diary. before spouting your PC, Love the tree Hippy clap trap, please learn about history before commenting. No sane person wants war, but no sane nation allows this type of action to go unpunished.

The Allies let the Japs off the hook due to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, however there was nothing to stop the Japanese taking action against those responsible under their laws..they didn't becase as a nation they feel they had a right to act like this, and the bastards still do. I have bee to Tokyo, and they are arrogant passionless gits. I do not hate them, I simply have no feelings either way for them, they are too sub human to hate as that would be an emotional responce.

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie, that was a much more reasoned post, with some valid points. Despite your probable view, I don't expect anyone to forget the things done in any war. The problem lies in anger indiscriminately directed towards the whole population. I actually would expect some form of reparation or remorse, but this is also lacking from the British government towards British soldiers who appear to be suffering the effects of exposure to substances used by their own side. Only denial available from the British government to start with, if not sustained.

The Chinese may have a case against Japan, but they also have a case against their treatment by the recent Chinese government Tienamen Square (can't spell it) and the regieme of Mao Tse Tung.

Here again you show a complete lack of understanding. The case of Gulf War syndrom has yet to be proved 100%, although there is certainly something going on, but as with the Tianaman Sq events, these are internal matters, the Gulf war is British and the Sq issue is for the Chinese to address.

What the Japs did was simply GENOCIDE, and the worst cases of Genocide known to man, and this is not a flippant comment, but a simple statistical fact.

I know people who hate the Germans for WWII, yet what the Germans did was amateur hour compared to the Japs.

 

[oilman]

Internal or external, death is death, an external might be the USA in Vietnam, all ok until the television pictures showed the Americans what their troops were doing, I know, it wasn't an attempt at genocide, but the individuals still died.

Don't bother replying, I'm obviously a boil on humanity's arse in not wishing a whole nation wiped off the face of the earth, unlike you. (Removing a nation is called genocide, but then you don't agree with genocide)

 

[Freddie]

Freddie, that was a much more reasoned post, with some valid points. Despite your probable view, I don't expect anyone to forget the things done in any war. The problem lies in anger indiscriminately directed towards the whole population. I actually would expect some form of reparation or remorse, but this is also lacking from the British government towards British soldiers who appear to be suffering the effects of exposure to substances used by their own side. Only denial available from the British government to start with, if not sustained.

The Chinese may have a case against Japan, but they also have a case against their treatment by the recent Chinese government Tienamen Square (can't spell it) and the regieme of Mao Tse Tung.

Oilman my meanings and postings are just the same.

 

[Freddie]

Internal or external, death is death, an external might be the USA in Vietnam, all ok until the television pictures showed the Americans what their troops were doing, I know, it wasn't an attempt at genocide, but the individuals still died.

Don't bother replying, I'm obviously a boil on humanity's a**e in not wishing a whole nation wiped off the face of the earth, unlike you. (Removing a nation is called genocide, but then you don't agree with genocide)

I agree with you Oilman but on this point you are wrong simply because of the way the Japanese people had been conditioned and what they believed---it is simple----they believed their Emporer was GOD and the Japanese people were superior to anything else on the planet---------the Allies they believed were no better than pond life at best and should be exterminated------this is known FACT.

OK you know the info then you tell us how you deal with those people----before you start i do believe the Allies tried everything they knew at the time