boiler adjustments

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dont need to do this yet but will need to understand what its all about.

yesterday commissioned a new installed boiler, looking through the manual it shows graphs of its efficiency and which adjustment screw to use.
these graphs appear in all service manuals and alterations vary with same outcome


Q.

what do the adjustment screws do and how is the impact of the adjustments measured:
 
Would help if we knew what boiler it was. I've never come across this, unless you mean adjusting th co2 content during commissioning :?
 
graph gave heating efficiency graph and co2 however only gave indications as to two screws on same part for heating and co2 adjustment. boiler was some continental peice senor or something like that.
 
I am a little confused!

If you commissioned the boiler properly then presumably you used an FGA to measure the CO² and understand what the adjustments are for?

You write as if you did not install the boiler. If thats the case then I hope you are not completing the Benchmark as the installer and notifying CORGI.

Tony
 
na the installer will be doing that part howerver wanter me to commission and become his servicing contractor a a later stage. not got corgi yet so im not allowed to do anything unsupervised.
 
didnt touch it mate, left it mfr settings, however will need to understand what it does for when my corgi card arrives.
 
We would need to see MI's, but it sounds to me like a can of worms, I would prefer to spend another £50 on a boiler with a decent UK distributor who has refined the language of the foreign MI's and taken responisbility to guarantee the product.

If it wasn't obvious from the MI's such that you had tot ask here, it seems to me your contact is importing some ill supported rubbish in the hope of saving pennies..
 
thanks paul, so even with decent boilers, the co2 rating should be checked using the flue gas analyser, i would then presume that its all to do with air gas mixture or gas restriction of some sort.

basically if i obtain a fga for future commissioning, how do i know which to adjust,where needed ect as ive never used one before im not sure what readings it will display and how to interpretate the reading into what the charts display. sounds silly and unitellectual i know but until i know what im doing on that side i would struggle with it, especially not being the type to just do it, just incase i cant restore back again.

ill start with what i think from above replies, so you can correct me if im wrong or should i just buy one and see how it all works.

these charts are for using with fga to ensure gas being used is correctly adjusted ,making it more effecient than simple gas rating into m3 or kw.

if analyser isnt used, then just use gas rating to ensure its not over gased ect and ignore charts.

terry
 
if analyser isnt used, then just use gas rating to ensure its not over gased ect and ignore charts

You are delving into some serious **** here.

You first said
yesterday commissioned a new installed boiler

Then said.
didnt touch it mate, left it mfr settings

So how do you know if the thing was set up correctly.

Boilers with premix burners require a FGA for commisioning, if you aint got one you can't do it.

If these things are not set up correctly they can produce HUGE amounts of CO.

Huge amounts of CO = Dead People
 
Doyle most band a boilers have adjustment on the gas valve, you put the analyser in the exhaust sensing hole and adjust at low output to whatever the MI's dictate. Can be different for each model some manufacturers have same figures for all models. Most manufacturers have different figures to each other. Then you check the high output seting which in many cases is not adjustable. If after adjusting low seting the high is outside tolerance you need to check you haven't mullered the flue seal or something. If it's still out of tolerance there is nothing you can do, call the manufacturer and put the ball in his court. Some gas valves allow for max rate adjustment, which makes life a lot easier.

Alternative to gas valve adjustment of co2 some manufacturers facilitate the adjustment by varying fan speed using a pot on the pcb.

It may even be possible to juggle the two.

Buderus don't expect any adjustment, and they don't expect you to measure co2 with a fga, but they do provide a means by which it can be checked using a sensetive differential manometer.

Worcester (the last time I commissioned one [always check for updates in MI's they change frequently even though the boiler appears to be the same]) don't expect you to even check it, specifically stating in the MIs that it is set up in the factory and they don't want you messing with it. I have seen it being done in the factory by far better equipment you or I have, every single boiler is set up at a final workstation, from memory there were about 4 of them being tested and set up correctly at a time.

Your band B boilers just need the min max and in some cases ignition gas pressures checking. And of course it's a good idea to gas rate all new installs, though if you have checked burner pressure you don't strictly have to gas rate.

You need to shop for the kit, there was a Kane 400 standing at £50 on ebay go check on it. In your case you could buy the kit like that , get used to it, but not use it seriously, then have it callibrated before going live with it. I don't advise you in your position to get a new one.

I picked up a BW Gasprobe on eBay fully callibrated with a new CO sensor just fitted and the old one to prove it for £270 while my Kane was being repaired [AGAIN](it's been nowt but trouble to be honest). The BW gasprobe gives same figures as Kane but not so sensetive as a differential pressure guage, though adequate for most tasks.

I am justified in having two as I have to use it on a daily basis and just couldn't do my job without it. Two is a luxury you don't need.

In all cases you must read the MI's to check for changes and also check data badges, some band b boilers' burner pressures are specific to that particular boiler if so it is stated on the data badge, allways look on it (if you can find it) first for such data.

Of course if the gas assessment of competense system wasn't a 100 years out of date you would have passed competence in this.
 
well ive got to agree the course are very very bare minimum with maximum cost.
boiler service aspects cover are mainly gas valve regulators thermostates and so on with no real or very limit verbal information on the technical aspects, i think this is why the twenty job rule applies.

what i remember from what was said if im correct that its not needed if gas rated and falls within the data badge info or something like what do you need co2 data for when its been gas rated,yet as you say mi may state to do so .

no practice on product analysing during course or what to adjust and how to adjust, basic testing of controls, thermostates and safety devices.

scatman

did do so as reasonably as possible
testing gas rates hot water and central heating in m3
heating outlet and return flow
water temp at taps and flow rates
burner pressure
controls ect

completion of form on last page of mi, installer to complete benchmark form for certification to occupier of corgi reg'd installation.

installer not much help in the techy stuff as it tends to lean towards me to be responsible to know it, hence wanting to know it.

all i want to do is to be able to do it safely like "most" others do which is why i find people in this forum very usefull, sharing the wisdom as real world stuff isnt the same.
 
doyle said:
all i want to do is to be able to do it safely like "most" others do which is why i find people in this forum very usefull, sharing the wisdom as real world stuff isnt the same.

The simple and unfortunate fact is the only about 10% or less gas engineers even have an FGA and far less know how to use it!

Paul Barker said :-

If after adjusting low seting the high is outside tolerance you need to check you haven't mullered the flue seal or something. If it's still out of tolerance there is nothing you can do, call the manufacturer and put the ball in his court. Some gas valves allow for max rate adjustment, which makes life a lot easier.

Not all boilers set at minimum power. Some set at maximum power and some have adjustments at min AND max!

I set up a hooting premix without an FGA last week just by flame observation but will return to check it with an FGA later but no complaints so far.

The Vissemann 100 has a CO² percentage anywhere between 7.5% and 10% said to be acceptable. They apparently dont quote an ideal setting within this range. The gas valve output pressure is not allowed to be reset but there is a variable restrictor.

Worcester are paranoid about letting installers set up their boilers. Their own service engineers are given more scope though. I see that as very derogatory to installers although I fully understand why they do it.

Tony
 
Mr Barker on an earlier post you said that if you have checked the gas pressure you shouldn`t really have to check the gas rate.

?? gas pressure has nothing to do with gas rate.

Remeber the poor RGI who fitted a brand new flueless gas fire and didn`t gas rate it as thought it would be perfect from manufacturer?

Someone died.
 
werewolf said:
Remeber the poor RGI who fitted a brand new flueless gas fire and didn`t gas rate it as thought it would be perfect from manufacturer?

Someone died.

Yes, but the problem is that he did not even bother to check the burner pressure either.

Thats a common problem in this industry. Some have basic skills to fit an appliance but cannot check its operation and most lack an FGA which is essential to check any premix ( band A ) boiler.

Tony
 

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