Boiler - how much water produced to soakaway?

[Agile]

G4U, dont you lag your condensate pipes with water proof lagging???

I do have to say I dont think its a good idea to have the condense only 500 away from the wall because it can start to eat the foundations when the lime has dissolved away after a year or two.

Tony

 

[gas4you]

Yes I do Tony, just meant that it would look like it was terminating next to the wall

Usually though whenever condensate drain is outside I always go to 1 1/4" waste that wont freeze. But then was this not the reason for siphonic traps being brought in? constantly dripping condensate will freeze, but a gush of running water won't?

If MI's say it is ok, then its ok by me.

 

[Gasguru]

markplumb said

exactly and can be buried so the only thing the first pic proves is that the condensate hasnt been lagged, why post pictures on here so customers will look at a job and think their plumber has done a bad job because lets face it all the customer will see from that pic is the way it's been piped, most couln't tell the difference between a lagged pipe and a plastic overflow.

The requirements for many manufacturers is that the outside pipework should be stepped up to 32mm and lagged with external UV resistant and waterproof lagging. Further more in the picture the pipe terminates 25mm below the bark.

Incorrect condensate pipework including lack of external traps and air breaks if required by MI can constitue an AR fault category since the risk of condensate backup to the heat exchanger is increased - very few boilers have protection against this.

Condensate pipework is the No.1 installation fault I find; rgi's local to me just can't be arsed to do the job properly.

 

[markplumb]

Well it was more or less a given that there wasn't a soakaway there as the pipe hadn't been lagged, why would the installer comply with the rest if he couldn't be bothered to lag it.

Some M.I state that you can run lagged 21.5mm lagged condensate outside for 3mts. As for the point about the acid eating into the foundations after a couple of years, the limestones should be changed at the time of servicing as i understand it. So as long as the boiler is serviced as it should be there shouldn't be a problem.

If MI's say it is ok, then its ok by me.

 

[Agile]

I cannot immagine BG spending 10 min to do a flue gas analysis and then an hour to dig up the trap and replace the limestone.

I suggest its going to be a fit and forget!!!

Geoff, the premix stops the boiler when the water gets up to the flame detection electrode!

Tony

 

[Gasguru]

Yes just like that Viessman 100 in GI a few months back

Did you see the letter from the Viesmann rep trying to defend their boiler by saying the boiler wasn't installed properly?

The fact remains that the whole process of type approval is junk and boilers should be required to have a float switch or such like to protect themselves from a blocked condensate pipe.

Some manufacturers take the cheapo route and simple daisy chain onto the sense electrode with mixed results (Ariston recall for instance).


As for servicing - it just doesn't happen with steamers. The sheer amount of time and the gaskets etc required is not something customers are prepared to pay for. eg the Greenstars require purpose made flue bushes and baffle removal tools. I found no merchants stocked the kits in my locality and even Plumbcenter did'nt stock them. Special order required. All goes to show proper servicing is not being carried out.

 

[markplumb]

I cannot immagine BG spending 10 min to do a flue gas analysis and then an hour to dig up the trap and replace the limestone.

I suggest its going to be a fit and forget!!!

Geoff, the premix stops the boiler when the water gets up to the flame detection electrode!

Tony

an hour?
great i can charge an hour for changing the limestones in a soakaway pit, brilliant.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Any well designed boiler should throw a wobbly whenthe condensate is blocked - perhaps with a fan error code .

Cdertain manufacvturer's use an earth connection to short out the controls - most of their tecvh phone monkeys would advise you to cut these leads out - I can think of two right now...

I have to say that I have never seen a frozen condensate pipe - bunged, aimed over a communal pathway, and even poked into someone elses garden. But never frozen

 

[namsag]

Have seen dripping ones frozen . And seen a couple that have been put into rain water soakaways that have blocked and backed up and filled entire boiler combustion chamber with rain water, Hence if possible put a tee in where an elbow goes so it can come out of there if it backs up as opposed to filling boiler

 

[gas4you]

Have seen dripping ones frozen . And seen a couple that have been put into rain water soakaways that have blocked and backed up and filled entire boiler combustion chamber with rain water, Hence if possible put a tee in where an elbow goes so it can come out of there if it backs up as opposed to filling boiler

Why didn't I think of that

 

[namsag]

Dave...Because you have been lucky enough for it not to happen to you yet... Happened to a mate lucky enough think it was ideal repaired boiler under warranty.

 

[gas4you]

Ahhhh. I had one of my 837's that I installed 2 weeks ago. I told the customer that his main drain was blocked. He said builder was comig round the next day to fix it and I believed him

2 weeks later he called me, on a Sunday, saying water was dripping from the boiler. I immediatley thought, christ, I must have left a connection slightly loose that has worsened with heating/cooling.

Went straight back, opened boiler casing and it was like a water fall Drain hadn't been cleared and condensate had backed up and filled EVERYTHING in the boiler.

Explained it was his fault and went and fitted new boiler 2 days later

He wasn't happy that his builder had not turnedup to unblock the drains as was promised to him.

Your tip would have saved him a lot of bother and expense

 

[namsag]

I think a lot of peope have been lucky up till now and a lot of people will now be think fook i have fitted loads like that.

 

[gas4you]

As I always say, you never stop learning and advice and tips on here are are priceless. I shall remember this one

 

[Dan Robinson]

Have seen dripping ones frozen . And seen a couple that have been put into rain water soakaways that have blocked and backed up and filled entire boiler combustion chamber with rain water, Hence if possible put a tee in where an elbow goes so it can come out of there if it backs up as opposed to filling boiler

Went to a Multi in Aubrey (too plssed for spelling). BG service guy(s) told them they needed new Gas valve and fan. Not cheap.

Client not impressed,

Well out of my area, but was on the lash with a mate in reading the night before so explained that as long as he didn't mind my potential condition and the time I would stop by on my way home (lovely part of the country by the way).


Problem was that BG services are warnk. the trap had filled and boiler was not happy. The thing is, with the Multi, their flue chamber and sump can hold a fiar bit of water. This one was in the loft so the "coffee perculator" noise was not noticed - and the rest of the installation will no doubt come to light in some post or other.

My hangover did not alolow me to think things through properly - thankfully there was an old capret stashed under boiler. Very absorbant.