Boiler on in short bursts, intermittent thermostat reaction

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Location
Warwickshire
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United Kingdom
Until late 2007 we had an efficient heating system, the house was comfortably warm and if you needed more you turned up the thermostat in the hall, the boiler fired, etc etc, pretty much a normal system. In late 2007 we had an ground floor extension to the rear of our house including underfloor heating, a repositioned Vaillant Eco Tech Plus boiler and 4 new radiators and 4 years on we have yet to get the thing running right!

Within days we noticed areas of the floor stayed cold, the fitter returned and reversed the flow with some slight success, then it soon became apparent the new rads were only getting luke warm where as the originals, some of which were downstairs, were getting as hot as you'd expect. We had the original fitter back several times over the 1st 3 years, he flushed it, replaced pumps, etc and generally fiddled about with it until I got totally fed up and had a Vaillant specialist round who could find only a minor setting fault in the boiler but was somewhat confused how the U/F heating was installed. He inturn called an U/F specialist who visited once, looked at it and never came back!

The biggest mystery for me surrounds the thermostat. It always seems to click at 20*, sometimes the boiler fires, usually not, but whenever it comes on it only seems to run no more than 1 - 11/2 mins and shuts off where as our original boiler would run, 5/10/20 mins as required to warm all rads and the house. Even if I whack the thermostat to 30+* it makes no difference, still short bursts and the kitchen with 2 rads andU/F heating hovers at 18-19* as does the hall where I have installed a thermometer next to the thermostat to confirm this. Oddly, the water, also heated from the boiler is usually hot.
I have only noticed 2 fault codes, F70 and F72, both of which I have pointed out to whoever has come , whether they are significant I don't know.

The thermostat in the hall is all that exists from the original set up, is that at fault, though it does seem to sometimes click the boiler on, even if it only runs for a minute or so, should I replace it? Everyone says the boiler itself is OK, is there a software glitch?Are the fault codes relevent? I could have a succession of fitters round until the problem is solved but I'm fed up handing out £80 here, £200 for parts there etc, etc, so I would welcome any advice short of ripping the whole thing out and starting again!!
 
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We had the original fitter back several times over the 1st 3 years, he flushed it, replaced pumps, etc and generally fiddled about with it until I got totally fed up and had a Vaillant specialist round who could find only a minor setting fault in the boiler but was somewhat confused how the U/F heating was installed. He inturn called an U/F specialist who visited once, looked at it and never came back!

I am left wondering if this UFH specialist was called and decided that you just wanted free advice and not surprisingly he decided that he did not want to be involved.

Now you are asking for free advice through this forum.

The reality is that the only way to correctly diagnose the problem is for a competent heating engineer to visit on a paid basis to see exactly what is wrong. I expect its a combination of settings, design and balancing.

I realise there is a public perception that all those who install boilers are capable of design and fault finding. The reality is that most can do the installation work but have little or no experience of design and fault finding.

Where abouts in Warwickshire are you?

Tony Glazier
 
Tony,
What gives you the right to publicly slag me off without knowing the full details. At what point did I say the Underfloor specialist did his inspection for free? I paid the going rate to the Vailant engineer and it was he who called in the UF specialist, not me. The arrangement was the UF man would work in conjunction with the Vailant man. I told him to let me know how he wanted to proceed but in the end he never got back which made me suspect the job was more involved than he wanted to get with it, but at no point did I ask for or expect free service or advice from either of them.

I had also had 3 years of paying the original fitter to come and mess with our heating system, apart from the initial flush and check I paid him the going rate each time, even when he suggested fitting a new pump as I was promised each time was the final solution, thats why I went on this forum.

I am sorry it offends you I am asking for "free" advice, I thought that was the idea of such a forum, that those of us in need ask those who know for advice. I am on several classic car forums and no mention is ever made on there that you are expected to financially engage an expert before they will condesend to provide advice.

Presumably you are self employed as am I, money is especially tight just now and I admit I don't have spare cash to employ another engineer to fiddle about with the system and then admit defeat. I was hoping by giving as many details as possible someone could say they had dealt with a similar situation before and that by getting A,B and C done the problem could be solved and I could engage an engineer and suggest he check those possible points but if this is typical of the "advice" on the forum we will just have to put on more jumpers and pray for a mild winter
 
press the i button when the boiler shuts down this will tell you the status and why its not firing, is it a vaillant 4** or a 6**
 
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f 70 and 72 relate to sensor problems on the boiler either a, you have a sensor problem or b, you have flow problems in your system simple as that.

another piece of advice is don't go slagging of experianced guys on open forums either tony is highly experianced in his field and was merely pointing out a fact, it is poosible free advice was being sought as you never stated that you had been paying these guys (after all a "specialist" never returned).

either way it is either the boiler has sensor faults or your so called "speciliast" knows it would be a pita to correct, as it's been ongoing from the boiler being moved i would bet on option 2
 
First thing, thank you to spudkey and bell824 for your advice. With regard the "i" button I don't have any information as to what the codes mean but I will note them doen for future reference. I think it is a 428 model, does that sound right?
The F70/72 info is good too though I am sure whoever came to see it before had that information if the codes were stored on the boiler but it is something to work on though the earliest I can get it looked at now will be into January.

With regard "slagging off Tony", while I do not doubt his competence and central heating knowledge I still find it objectionable that the first comment is an accusation that I am always looking for something for nothing. I have never been on any forum before where the advice is only given if you are prepared to discuss your private financial arrangements.
I just wanted to get as many relevent facts down so you experts could see something I was unaware of and suggest a course of action which spudkey and bell824 have done, I did indicate at the end I had paid out several amounts of money for so called experts and parts and I simply threw the net out further. I could hardly ask the original fitter if he knew anyone better, and the other chap came via a neighbours recommendation. Yes, he did turn out to be a bit of a waste of time and money but we can all be wise after the event.
 
I imagine the the status code will be s53 you have insuffiant flow through boiler what size are pipes out of boiler, what pump do you have and what is heat output of All rads. The output of boiler should be set to suit system this is done in d0 menu
 
Hi spudkey, looked at the boiler and they seem to be 15mm pipes and thinner ones (8mm) going into the radiators. All the upstairs rads and the 1 remaining original downstairs get quite warm though not uniformly hot, varies from warm to almost too hot to touch, but the 4 new downstairs ones never get above barely warm. Likewise the underfloor heating is noticeable but never enough to comfortably heat the room on its own but then again I haven't experienced other UFH systems to appreciate what is too hot or cold. The pump is a Grundfos UPS Type 15-60-130
 

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