Bonding Radiators, pipes or radiator directly.

[Mrdjc]

Hypothetical question, trying to understand what would be allowed and what not.

Say I have a Metal radiator, fed by 15MM copper pipe, using brass connectors (No plastic anywhere). And it requires bonding in order to comply with XYZ.

Are you allowed to just bond all the pipes directly at the boiler provided there is no plastic in the loop?

Or do you need to bond each radiator directly in the room itself, rather than the pipework feeding it outside the room?

It's a genuine question I'd like to know, as I've read various different answers whilst searching on internet.

The idea of building a new house with huge earth wires sticking out the wall with tags on them seems a bit over the top.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Say I have a Metal radiator, fed by 15MM copper pipe, using brass connectors (No plastic anywhere). And it requires bonding in order to comply with XYZ.

Are you allowed to just bond all the pipes directly at the boiler provided there is no plastic in the loop?

It's not a question of "Are you allowed?"
The pipe MUST be bonded where it enters the premises/exits the ground AND in special locations (e.g. bathrooms) if certain criteria are not met.

Or do you need to bond each radiator directly in the room itself, rather than the pipework feeding it outside the room?

It is allowed outside of the room but it must be somewhere where it can be inspected.

It's a genuine question I'd like to know, as I've read various different answers whilst searching on internet.

The idea of building a new house with huge earth wires sticking out the wall with tags on them seems a bit over the top.

That would not happen with decent planning.
I would say it only DID happen because it is easy.

 

[RF Lighting]

What makes you think that radiators need bonding at all?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Although in Slovakia now, he's probably been in public buildings where there is usually a link between everything - presumably because 'it saves working out anything if we just bond everything'

 

[Mrdjc]

Right so:

In order to comply you MUST bond incoming Gas & Water. (I understood that much )

After that, by law are you required to Bond:
Hot & Cold water distribution (Pressure vessel/immersion heater with storage tank) ?

Central heating (At central heating boiler Feed & Return circuit) ?

Or do you require (For a bathroom) to also run cables to the taps downstairs, or branch off existing wiring for a supplementary bonding, or can you forget about all this since its all bonded at the same point, and its copper piping?

Is bonding everything at the same point (At the boiler, away in the loft) deemed acceptable, even for a bathroom?

No need to run supplementary bonding to the radiator in the bathroom, and the taps in the bathroom, since the copper piping is a condunctor in its own?

Or does a too high a distance through copper piping and tin joins/PTFE sealant give issues with conductivity?

Should the pipes be tested for resistance or something?

I'm just really curious!

Thanks for your answers

 

[Mrdjc]

Although in Slovakia now, he's probably been in public buildings where there is usually a link between everything - presumably because 'it saves working out anything if we just bond everything'

Hahaha, you'd be scared if you set foot in this country, I've not seen a single earthed item here yet, they just piggy everything straight back onto Neutral. Water and Gas are just left alone, no bonding or nothing.

I have however, stayed in a few places with stingy landlords, and like you say, earthing cable drilled through walls and running along skirtingboards from taps to radiators etc, Big massive tags in every room.. A right eyesore, but I'm sure the landlord was happy with his extra pint in the pub on all the money he saved, and he had a certificate from the electrician who was more than happy to carry out the work and just had to drill a couple of holes through walls, not needing to worry about aesthetics

 

[EFLImpudence]

In order to comply you MUST bond incoming Gas & Water. (I understood that much )

Yes

After that, by law are you required to Bond:
Hot & Cold water distribution (Pressure vessel/immersion heater with storage tank) ?

No,

Central heating (At central heating boiler Feed & Return circuit) ?

The regulations state that central heating should be bonded but this could be done somewhere inconspicuous.

Or do you require (For a bathroom) to also run cables to the taps downstairs, or branch off existing wiring for a supplementary bonding,

No. If necessary you only have to bond together the things IN the bathroom.
If RCD is protecting the circuits in the bathroom supplementary bonding may be omitted.

or can you forget about all this since its all bonded at the same point, and its copper piping?

No, as above.

Is bonding everything at the same point (At the boiler, away in the loft) deemed acceptable, even for a bathroom?

No. It doesn't work like that.

No need to run supplementary bonding to the radiator in the bathroom, and the taps in the bathroom, since the copper piping is a conductor in its own?

Perhaps, but the bonding is only BETWEEN things in the bathroom, including the CPCs in the fittings and accessories - not to anywhere else.

Or does a too high a distance through copper piping and tin joins/PTFE sealant give issues with conductivity?

Yes, that is the point.
There may be, in the event of a fault, a difference in potential between metal parts.

Should the pipes be tested for resistance or something?

Yes, that's it.
If the resistance is very low between the metal part and the MET, a figure of 0.05Ω is frequently quoted but it could be higher, then supplementary bonding would not be needed.

 

[Mrdjc]

Roger, thank you very much for that sir!

I was just very curious as to ins and outs behind bonding, since I've seen so many buildings where they are extremely obvious, and started to wonder if there were other, more eye pleasing, solutions to it

Just one more question, you mention RCD protection for zoned rooms,
In that case, do you require to connect the earth from that zoned room directly to the pipes, before bonding them all together?

Or can you leave the zone seperated from the pipes in that room directly and instead bond the pipes together in that zone, without connecting to the earth wire, but instead bond it all at one central place and connect it back to the Earth Terminal in the CU, along with the Gas and Water?

 

[Spark123]

You appear to be mixing up BS7671:2008 with the law. BS7671 is non statutory hence complying with it is not mandatory, however it may be used to show compliance with a law here such as Part P in England/Wales and the EAWR. What the law says in your country may be completely different to ours and compliance with a British Standard may not comply with your laws.

There is plenty of info in the wiki regarding supplementary bonding in bathrooms and the omission of where RCDs are used.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just to clarify that I am talking about the regs. here, in which I thought you were interested, and not Slovakia.

Just one more question, you mention RCD protection for zoned rooms,
In that case, do you require to connect the earth from that zoned room directly to the pipes, before bonding them all together?

No, If all the electrical circuits that go INto the bathroom (lighting, spur from Ring to electric radiator for example) are protected by an RCD (which they must be if new) then NO supplementary bonding at all is required.
There may be exceptional cases where it still may be required but unlikely.

 

[Mrdjc]

Yes the UK regulations is what I was curious about

I'll make some diagrams to confirm what I think I have understood from this, as its still a little bit confusing for me.

From what I gather:
The whole purpose of Supplementary bonding is to have the same potential on every part that can conduct current (And may be touched).

So in other words if you stick your hand on two different un-bonded pipes, and one has a higher potential than the other, you don't become the conductor.
Or the same with only one pipe, but you become the conductor to ground.

At some point all the bonded pipes require to be tied into the Main Earth Terminal so "earth" in the building is all at the same level throughout?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'll make some diagrams to confirm what I think I have understood from this, as its still a little bit confusing for me.

Probably here, as suggested above-
//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:earthing_supply_types_and_bonding[quote]The whole purpose of Supplementary bonding is to have the same potential on every part that can conduct current (And may be touched).[/QUOTE]Yes, touched at the same time or as used in the regs. - simultaneously accessible.

So in other words if you stick your hand on two different un-bonded pipes, and one has a higher potential than the other, you don't become the conductor.
Or the same with only one pipe, but you become the conductor to ground.

Yes.

At some point all the bonded pipes require to be tied into the Main Earth Terminal so "earth" in the building is all at the same level throughout?

Yes, that is the Main Bonding from where the pipes enter the building to the MET.
Supplementary Bonding is for the simultaneously accessible parts in local areas where necessary.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes the UK regulations is what I was curious about

I'll make some diagrams to confirm what I think I have understood from this, as its still a little bit confusing for me.

What's the point?

You are in Slovakia, not the UK.

 

[Taylortwocities]

mrjdc
Take the time to read all of the link above //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:earthing_supply_types_and_bonding

and understand the difference between EARTHING and SUPPLEMENTARY BONDING.
They are different things.

 

[Mrdjc]

Thanks for the info chaps

I realise they are different things, but in some cases, they tie back into the MET, no? And in other cases, they don't tie back in, instead they are all at equipotential, not connected to MET?

And BAS.

Why can't I be interested in UK Regulations if I wish to be?

I am only in Slovakia for another half a year tops, till I graduate, and I will be moving back to the UK.
The point is that its far better to attempt to understand how things work, than to pretend you do. I just like to learn things.

Now, since I've been so kind to answer your question, which I don't think actually contributed anything to this thread in general, could you please answer the following questions for me?

What's the point in flower arranging?
What's the point in artwork?
What's the point in learning a second language?