Bosch washer dryer won't dry!

[vxxbcks]

Model is WVF 2501, washer dryer, about 2yrs old.

Seems to work OK but won't dry - doesn't seem to be any heat. What I presume to be the air heater element on top of the drum just after the fan is still showing 35-ohms across it though.

Any ideas greatly appreciated!!

 

[breezer]

i should say get a proper engineer in, when i was at h******t there was a "mod" that came out for our washer dryers, it was to rectify a problem that could happen.

my point is if i told you what i think is really wrong you may miss something more serious that is wrong.

 

[vxxbcks]

i should say get a proper engineer in, when i was at h******t there was a "mod" that came out for our washer dryers

Breezer,

You seem to give the same reply to any problem anyone posts here. I appreciate your concerns and understand that you probably have safety as your primary concern, however there are those of us that like to have a go.

Personally I've got en electronics/computing degree, a load of test gear including an oscilloscope, and like to fix things mostly for fun.

I was therefore hoping that someone would be able to point me in the direction of a likely faults with this machine or a service manual in order to save me some time and effort - that way leaving more time for my broken fruit machines!

Why not post up the details of this H******* mod?

Cheers anyway
James.

 

[breezer]

As you said some times i do give out similar advice (which basicaly says don't touch it, call an engineer)

I do this because i do not want to be responsible for some one:

killing themselves

Breaking their appliance

With appliances specialist tools are required that most do not have. a scope NOT being one of them Also appliances are not toys so are not fun

imagine this:

lid off m/c, your arm ripped off blood everywhere......... "but breezer said"


i should have also added read this

 

[vxxbcks]

You might be interested then that under UK law you have no liability to 3rd parties for advice offered in a social context, if I understand correctly.

I use the sope for diagnosing board faults, me being the type to repair them rather than just swapping them (but then there aren't exactly a good supply of working spares for 1980's fruit machines).

I'll post details of the problem once it's fixed in case anyone else is interested.

 

[vxxbcks]

Model is WVF 2501, washer dryer, about 2yrs old.
Seems to work OK but won't dry - doesn't seem to be any heat.

For anyone interested, the problem was that the air extract duct from the bottom of the drum was blocked with sodden, mouldy fluff.

At the point the air is drawn out of the drum, it goes through rubber tube about 50mm diameter and then immediately through 90-degrees into the condensor. As far as I can see it is inevitable that this will eventually become blocked due to its small size and the sharp angle.

Cleaning it out is simple enough but access is from under the machine so transit bolts in and tip it on its side.

The consensate also runs down through this tube, into the drum and out through the usual drain. Hence in my opinion it is probably because the machine has continuously been over-filled for drying (its stated max load is just 2.25kg) that the tube has got blocked so quickly. It strikes me that drying more will increase the concentration of fluff, but without sufficient water to wash it away.

Removing the fan from the top of the machine also revealed a build up of hard fluff here. Hardly any fluff in the heater box though, presumably because the centrfugal force the fan creates spins it all out.

Cheers
Jim.

 

[IanDB]

It would be interesting to know whether other people have similar problems and in what time scale. Washer driers have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable but that may be due to the fact that most people don't know how to fix simple things like this and have to call out an engineer. It all depends on usage as well.

Nice to know what the problem was.

 

[PTH]

Well done for sorting your machine out sounds like a case of persistence paying off.

I have a similar problem with a Servis Caress 900 washer dryer - sometimes it will dry, sometimes not. I have worked on a number of washing machines before but not a washer-dryer. I'll be extending my experience this weekend! Your posts have been very useful in giving me a few places to start looking. From my understanding of your posts the condenser drains back through the drum - can anyone tell me if this is common across all makes?

Also I had a brief look last night and wondered if the routing of the drain hose could be the problem - it comes out of the back of the machine , drops to floor level then up to the connection at the sink trap. I would imagine it would be better stay at as high a level as possible then drop to the trap coonnection - can anyone confirm this?

 

[breezer]

cant speak for your m/c but a hotpoint w d works the following way.

air is blown (via fan on condensor) across 2 heating elements into drum
this air picks up moisture leaves drum via the small holes and goes up the condensor back to the fan, so cycle starts again.

the condensor is two halves (well more like 90% 10% ) cold water runs down inside this 10 % from the 3rd cold valve (3 on a wd, 2 on a wm)

as the hot air (with moisture in the 90%) goes up the condensor it condenses on the walls of the condensor and runs down the bottom of the condensor.

both lots of water, (condensed and cold) then run into the bottom of the outer drum, into the pump and are pumped to waste.

The condensor 90% and the fan often get coated (not blocked) with lint and fluff.

hope this is of use

edited by me for typo

 

[PTH]

Thanks Breezer, that all sounds like sensible design to me - I guess the intention is that the condenser reduces the moisture content of the recycled air by dewpoint contact without losing too much temperature. I often wondered why there was no significant air discharge during the drying - I should have thought about it a bit more logically. I imagine that most manufacturers will be using the same design principles.

Any comments re the hose routing seeing as you're the experts expert in appliances? !

Apologies to Pearce_jj for hi-jacking this thread. - I should have started a new one really.

 

[vxxbcks]

PTH: Yes the water runs back to the drain via the drum, by that I mean the outer drum as breezer says. I presume your drain exits from the top of the machine then? The bosch one comes out the bottom.

Breezer: The Bosch uses only a single heater element but has three thermostats (presumably hi, low and safety cutout?).

Incidentally the condensor on the bosch is nothing more than a flat plastic tube positioned vertically up at one side of the drum. As breezer says, cold water is trickled down one side of it from a 3rd valve but via a small float chamber of some desciption.

The hot, damp air is sucked up the tube the cold water causes (presumably) a drop in temperature and therefore condensation on the walls of the tube, and being vertical it all drains down the tube the same way the air got sucked in in the first place. That's where the problem was at it is quite a small intake duct and a sharp bend.

Which leads me too... what an incredibly crap way of drying clothes!

Would it not surely be so much more efficient to use a proper dehumidifier, ie a compressor, refridgerant and an evaporator matrix to condense water from the air, a condensor to heat it up again, and a 2nd condensor mounted on the outside of the machine to control the temperature.

That way maybe it would be possible to run a drying cycle at only 20* therefore avoiding shrinkage problems.

Rant over!

 

[breezer]

PTH: . I presume your drain exits from the top of the machine then?

they make m/c as economicly as possible so why run the waste pipe inside the m/c i bet it exists at the bottom (so less pipe used)

the things you have to consider with a w/d are:

the "extra bits" are secured to the main drum, in spin mode they are still there, which means they have to be able to withstand a lot of vibration (sometimes they didn't)

by design they do dry differently (no fresh air) so the clothes never come out as dry as they would in a t.dryer

a td sucks air in, heats it, blows across clothes and out via large hose

I did hear of one manufacturer (cant remember who) that changed all wd to wm because the dryer was so unrelaible.

I would not know about the 3 stats on a Bosch (only worked on HP)

as for a separate proper dehumidifier, it would cost too much

re: the routing of hoses i can not comment other than to say its a "design feature"

Its nice of you to say i am the expert on appliances, but i should point out, i was only a home laundry engineer, which meant i only worked on wm, wd, and td

I know a tiny bit about dishwashers

and even less about fridges

my d:w knowledge is this:


always mix cutlery as if two spoons or forks sit front to back water cant get in the gap

always clean things before you put them in dw (yes thats right rinse them under tap first, this is because a dw is NOT a waste disposal unit, it can not cope with the "bits" left on plates etc)

if you dont rinse things ketchup will turn all plastic in dw to pink

and egg will turn it yellow

they need a lot of salt

----------------------------------------

my only hope is no one gets a top loader problem, i hated them with a vengance

NOTE: if any one ever does get a tl it is normal for them to smell of burning on the first few times of use on the spin cycle ONLY, this is because it has a clutch and the clutch shoes are "bedding in"

 

[vxxbcks]

they make m/c as economicly as possible so why run the waste pipe inside the m/c i bet it exists at the bottom (so less pipe used)

My sister has a Hotpoint washer drier with a hose carefully clipped all the way up the back! (In fact she'll be gutted as she bought it to replace the Bosch machine this thread is all about...)

as for a separate proper dehumidifier, it would cost too much

This is always assumed, I agree it would cost a lot more. But people will pay - look at the success Mr Dyson has had with his design of vacuums blatantly ripped from commercial sawdust extraction systems...

they need a lot of salt

Use 3-in-1 tabs!!

 

[ChrisR]

We had about 3 otpoint WD's over about 11 years. Condenser clearing became a boring 6 monthly ritual. Had bespoke clothes-hangers for the purpose. Only plus point is that you get really quick at it!
I felt the condensers worked better with a thin layer of fluff on the inside - helps hold the cold water perhaps.

One small point - watch your socks. You aren't supposed to put any wool in those (any?) wd's; it blocks them a treat. Also we could sometimes blame a particular garment for its type of fluffiness.

Got a Zanussi now - the HP's were pretty unreliable really. The Z doesn't fluff-up, but now that isn't drying any more...!

 

[breezer]

i have never seen the point of a wd i would always recomend a td instead

hp did a stacking kit to enable the td to fit on top of a wm