Box Frame, Is this really the case?

[Krishane]

Thanks for this but I am seeing another structural engineer to get a second opinion. If they think its needed will go ahead with job. If not will get them to draw plans and go ahead with job too.

I can not wait and want to get sarted soon as poss.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I can not wait and want to get sarted soon as poss.

Yes, I suspected you were one of them!

 

[Krishane]

Hi All

I have taken some of the advice given and looked into this matter further.
I checked my emails which contained examples of work this architect had done before and I found an almost identicle copy of the box frame he put in a semi detached house(my house is a mid terrace house). The beam sizes are the same exactly.

Now I am beginning to think he has done no calculations for the structure and just using previous work to make a quick buck.

Thoughts please

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I am beginning to think he has done no calculations for the structure and just using previous work to make a quick buck.

We know that already!

dare I ask what I have missed?

The OP's engineer has intimated that he is happy to draw up either as a solution but has already drawn up a box frame solution hence his reluctance to draw up a more economical (for the OP) goal post solution.

He (the SE) has also intimated that he is uncomfortable having work commence on site using a revised goalpost design that has not yet been approved by the LA suggesting to the cynical posters amongst us that he is using an already LA approved design ie from a previous job and is merely trying to save himself some work.

You have been advised as to the proper route to take by me already. The suggested route to take (by me) is not available to you if you are in a hurry so it is up to you.

Ask your engineer to design a goal post. Wait until it is approved by the LA. Get at least three quotes using approved drawings as basis of tender quotes. Appoint builder and use 'as approved drawings' to form basis of contract. Simples!

 

[Krishane]

Hey Fred

This guy is taking the mick..

I have given my plans to another structural engineer friend of a friend.
If the verdict comes back and he says he is being way to cautious then I will take this up with him. (The costs of just the steels are 2k, with all the nuts and bolts, adding alot of cost)

I am paying for a service and get some one who wants to earn a quick buck.

 

[Krishane]

I forgot to tell you Fred that the architect wants extra money to change the plans.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Ultimately your architect has a responsibility to provide a practical and cost effective solution if you're not happy you need to discuss it with him before you go paying someone else.

Obviously we now know he is an engineer. Unless he told you he was going to issue you with a previous design from a completely different project you have a right to expect a bespoke design and as mentioned that should be

a practical and cost effective solution

Tell him to change the plans and that you're prepared to wait for the drawings to be approved by Building Control (or are you not?) and that you do not owe him anything extra.

Is he a member of any professional bodies such as http://www.istructe.org/Pages/default.aspx hint: it may say on his website. Personally the guy sounds like a right to**er and I'd be threatening to report him to any professional bodies he belongs to and trading standards if he refuses to do you a bespoke design.

Have you asked him if he has PI, if so ask to see his certificate.

 

[Krishane]

The good news is that other structural engineer looked at plans said box frame is needed. But the old foundations don’t need to be removed.
As the frame is designed to take the weight. He did question the size of beams being used and said I should ask for copy of the calculations.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

 

[Static]

The good news is that other structural engineer looked at plans said box frame is needed. But the old foundations don’t need to be removed.

Thats the whole idea of a box frame is so you dont need any foundation improvement.. if your Archi-engineer didnt make that clear, then beat him with a stick..

 

[RonnyRaygun]

I work in a structural consultancy. I can't say for certain whether a box frame is or isn't required but from experience it is something that we almost always go with when removing the ground floor brickwork of a property such as yours.

I would think that the engineer has done calculations; the fact that the scheme is similar to a previous one shouldn't surprise you.
Structural engineers are cautious, and we will not rely on the stability gained from the other houses in the terrace, therefore it shouldn't be a surprise that the semi-detached house had a similar scheme. What if all the other houses in the terrace have the same thing done? If the wind load doesn't cause a catastrophic failure it may well lead to cracking of yours or your neighbours' properties.

A box frame usually works out better as the existing footing can be reused - this footing will have carried a heavier load for a number of years and so can be assumed to be satisfactory, and as long as the base beam is stiff enough it will spread the load back along the footing. A new pad footing will need further design and, as another poster said, you may have issues with the party walls and undermining their foundations.

If I were you I would accept that the box frame is the best option. Remember that most builders won't ever have done the structural calculations on any of the buildings that they erect. You wouldn't ask a structural engineer to build a wall for you would you!?

Craig.

 

[Krishane]

Thanks for all your advice I will definitely go for a box frame.