Brand new rad, new pipe work, 1st from boiler, doesn't work!

[jaylord79]

Hi. So had a new radiator put in in the kitchen. The kitchen is an extension along with bathroom so they didn't put any rad in before I guess due to concrete floor. But the boiler is in the bathroom. Now the pipe work the plumber put in is only new up to a point. He found that the towel rail in the bathroom (which is currently plumbed into the hot water) was plumbed into the heating system at some point and these pipes (flow and return) were just linked together with flexible hose. They used speed fit pipes from just inside the wall where the rad is mounted as they had to go behind the water cylinder. Then used t shaped connectors to tap into the flow and return original copper pipe. So I guess this is all ok so far. Now the problem is they filled the system back up, got all the other rads working once bled, but had no heat at all in the new rad! Bled it, fully opened valves but nothing. This is now the nearest rad to the pump and boiler yet is the only one not working.
They were there til 6pm from 9.30am start, most of the afternoon trying to get pump working (airlock) and this rad problem. So they left it with me that the valves are faulty and I said I can change them. Plumber is also a friend so wasn't too bothered by this. But now with 2 new valves the problem is still there!! I actually took the speed fit pipe going the the feed of the rad out and filled a pot with its water with heating running but this was cold. Any help, suggestions, ideas all welcome.

Many thanks in advance.

P.S I am getting them back out Tuesday

 

[Armo74]

Flexibles in a heating system,
Always a recipe for disaster

 

[Agile]

You had a radiator fitted!

So its up to the installer to identify and sort out the problem!

He is also a friend. Perhaps you think that friends don't need to be paid?

Perhaps he is a good friend but a bad plumber?

What does HE as the professional think?

Perhaps you need to pay a professional to correct it?

Tony

 

[jaylord79]

Sorry Agile, maybe I'm reading your post wrong but seems quite unhelpful on a diy forum to just list points of an argument we were not even having. I was asking for any ideas from people that may have come across this problem before to give me any ideas for a possible suggestion to how to fix it! You have suggested that as a friend I wouldn't want to pay him, wrong, I actually asked him NOT to even give me mates rates as I did not expect free work doing or any favours as I know he needs to make a living. As I stated he will be coming back on Tuesday but that seemed to have passed you by. I'm just trying to get some idea of what people thought the problem was. Thought that was kind of the idea here but obviously you didn't agree. Hopefully my reply can just be left as the end of it as I don't think you would want to help someone like me,so I'll say thank you for your confusing reply and ask that maybe you leave this particular thread for someone else who might actually be willing to give a bit of help and advice.

Thanks

 

[Agile]

I thought that I was being helpful by suggesting that your friend is not a very good plumber!

I come to that conclusion because firstly he evidently did not make it work.

Secondly he suggested that TWO rad valves were faulty! I can say that for even one valve to be faulty is very rare but for two?

You have not made it clear but the expectation would be that they are new valves. So TWO new valves faulty out of the box?

From a computer it is very difficult to diagnose anything like this.

The obvious expectation is that its been piped wrongly.

Plumbing is very easy! That's why people without degrees can do it and even without any GCSEs!

The only conclusion that I can come to is that your friend has somehow messed up with the connections!

But you don't seem to want my help!

Tony

 

[jaylord79]

I think it's probably best if you go on to help someone else. i'm sure some questions don't elicit the response from you that I got. The fact I said it was new rad and new pipe work didn't think I needed to say the valves were new. Suggesting plumbing is so easy you don't even need gcse's to do it is just a bit insulting all round really. I won't bother replying to any more of your posts as it doesn't get me any further to trying to sort a problem out in my house. I'm sure you are having fun but I do actually need to get a solution to this one way or another. I don't feel you have put anything on this thread that is in the spirit of professionals advising those of us who want to get an understanding on something. So let's leave it there eh?

 

[Galoka]

It does sound like it is mis plumbed somehow.

Will the rad get hot if the valves on all the other rads on the system are closed down?

 

[jaylord79]

Hi Galoka,

I must admit I have not tried this. It is now the nearest to the boiler though? But I will close all of them off tomorrow and see if that helps. I fear it may be an error with the way it's done too, just think there are ways to go about things is all. I'm trying to think of the best way to describe what it looks like. The original copper flow pipe used to run to a shut off valve then into flexible hose the other end of the hose links to original copper return also via a shutoff valve. They think this used to feed a towel heater in bathroom which has been changed to hot water system. So what they did was but a speed fit? Connector on both copper pipes before the shut off valve, these are t shape connectors so still leave the copper as it was but tap off to the new speed fit pipes that go to the new rad. Could this be where they have gone wrong? Also could the rad itself be faulty? I also think this won't be the case. Thanks very much.

 

[Galoka]

It's always hard to communicated these things with words? Got any piccies?

So the flexible pipe is basically connecting the ends of the these flow and return copper pipes? via two valves? I'm wondering why? maybe to act as a bypass for some reason - otherwise why not just cap them off?

I assume HW is circulating in this pipe? are the valves fully open? if you shut them does the rad work?

 

[Agile]

Just telling us the make and model of boiler might give us some clues!

Tony

 

[jaylord79]

I will upload some photos and a diagram of what I think they did when I get home from work. From what they told me this flow and return actually went to a towel warmer in the bathroom originally but then someone changed its supply from CH to HW. I don't know whether this makes sense but would the flexihose be there as the water would need to still flow round the house so it was acting in place of the towel heater, and they left this pipework due to laziness instead of just removing it? They had actualy left both shut off valves in the off position which didn't get the rad working nor did opening them both. I did find the original copper to the point they tapped into it was hot but past the new speedfit t connector the other side of the copper was luke warm and I decided to take the new speedfit pipe out of the connector to the new rad and drain a bit of water from it which was cold. Boiler is a potterton suprima but HW and all other rads are working fine. Hope this helps someway and will upload pics when im home.

Thanks very much

 

[Agile]

With a heat only boiler like that the connection has to be in the right location relative to the pump and motor valve(s).

I don't expect to follow your description of how its connected.

Tony

 

[Galoka]

I think a diagram of things is required really, I think I know what you mean, but I could be getting it wrong.

Where do these pipes connect back into the rest of the system?

 

[jaylord79]

This is a diagram (of sorts) as to how I think it looks to me. Where I have written copper (hot) this part gets hot yet everything after is not. Do you think an elbow in place of "T-shaped speed fit connector" on both flow and return might help and do away with all the old stuff that runs to right of diagram?

Also as for following it back to the system it's quite tricky for me as all of is other than where it connects to the "T-shaped speed fit connector runs behind the hot water cylinder!

Many thanks

 

[jaylord79]

Not sure if the image is there but it is in my album with rad in title. Cheers