Breach of Condition 3

[karlosmarshall]

Hi I am in a bit of a mess and wondered if anyone could help with advice
We have permission to build a two story side extension and loft conversion by raising the ridge and adding dormers and skylights
On our planning approval it states that the extension is to be built with the same material colour and texture of the existing dwelling a vague condition and open for interpretation in my view because
from the beginning we have always planned to reface our existing building in a new facing brick as the old red ones were ugly and miss mash from previous works by the previous owners we even had the new leaf showing a new brick face drawn on our approved drawings sent to the planning as it was what we intended to do
I always thought and I am told we are allowed to reface the existing house without approval as it’s under permitted development and we have done so but we also built the new extension using the new brick as why would you use a similar brick to the existing if you have refaced the existing house we just built it all in the same brick as the new face on the existing house so it all looks the same
we have now received a enforcement notice for breach of condition 3 for not matching the existing dwelling prior to refacing the house a project started prior to building the extension so was done before Building our extension
we thought that because we built the extension after refacing the original walls that we should build the extension to match the existing dwelling as it is now having a new faceing brick so that it’s a cohesive look
obviously this is causing some anxiety and stress as it’s a costly project And to be in this position is not what we wanted nor did we think we were doing something wrong and if the enforcement is anything to go on we have 28 days to rebuild the extension with a red brick this is just an impossibility or seek retrospective planning the issue I have is we don’t have the nicest of neighbours and what will the outcome be because we are already so invested that the costs could cripple us we are at a loss what to do we just thought that by matching the existing dwelling as it is now that we are matching the existing dwelling because there is no red brick anymore and would it not look awful if we had our extension a different brick to the rest I don’t think anyone would build it to look different to the rest it’s a difficult position to be in any help would be appreciated

 

[noseall]

Hi I am in a bit of a mess and wondered if anyone could help with advice
We have permission to build a two story side extension and loft conversion by raising the ridge and adding dormers and skylights
On our planning approval it states that the extension is to be built with the same material colour and texture of the existing dwelling a vague condition and open for interpretation in my view because
from the beginning we have always planned to reface our existing building in a new facing brick as the old red ones were ugly and miss mash from previous works by the previous owners we even had the new leaf showing a new brick face drawn on our approved drawings sent to the planning as it was what we intended to do
I always thought and I am told we are allowed to reface the existing house without approval as it’s under permitted development and we have done so but we also built the new extension using the new brick as why would you use a similar brick to the existing if you have refaced the existing house we just built it all in the same brick as the new face on the existing house so it all looks the same
we have now received a enforcement notice for breach of condition 3 for not matching the existing dwelling prior to refacing the house a project started prior to building the extension so was done before Building our extension
we thought that because we built the extension after refacing the original walls that we should build the extension to match the existing dwelling as it is now having a new faceing brick so that it’s a cohesive look
obviously this is causing some anxiety and stress as it’s a costly project And to be in this position is not what we wanted nor did we think we were doing something wrong and if the enforcement is anything to go on we have 28 days to rebuild the extension with a red brick this is just an impossibility or seek retrospective planning the issue I have is we don’t have the nicest of neighbours and what will the outcome be because we are already so invested that the costs could cripple us we are at a loss what to do we just thought that by matching the existing dwelling as it is now that we are matching the existing dwelling because there is no red brick anymore and would it not look awful if we had our extension a different brick to the rest I don’t think anyone would build it to look different to the rest it’s a difficult position to be in any help would be appreciated

I'm astonished your designer did not warn you about matetial changes to what was approved.
Anyhow, just seek retro approval via another planning application.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

from the beginning we have always planned to reface our existing building in a new facing brick as the old red ones were ugly and miss mash from previous works by the previous owners we even had the new leaf showing a new brick face drawn on our approved drawings sent to the planning as it was what we intended to do

Was this change indicated on the proposed drawings?

 

[mrrusty]

If the proposed change was on the drawings I think you have a good argument. If the extension does match the current house materials I think that's a second good argument (surely the purpose of the condition), and AFAIK you don't need permission to change the appearance of the front of your house outside a conservation area, and if that was started before the extension that's another good argument.

Which route is best I'm not sure - put in another application at more cost, or go straight in and appeal the enforcement.let's see what others think.

 

[karlosmarshall]

We were under the impression rightly I believe that to change the existing facing brick walls we could do so under permitted development we started doing this way before building the new extension we also understand that the planning approval stated that the extension is to be built using the same materials as the existing dwelling our argument is that we have done this as the existing dwellings facing brick work was replaced prior to building the extension and we had the new leaf we were going to build on the existing house drawn on our architectural drawings submitted to the council so it’s not like they were not made aware we were doing permitted works

 

[thomp1983]

Reply to the council with the above in a clearly worded letter and see what there response is.

No point getting yourself worked up over it all, worst case is your retrospective application is refused at which point you just sit and wait for them to take enforcement action which will amount to nothing as there's no way they can argue it's in the public interest to have someone demolish an extension as it's in the wrong type of brick

 

[big-all]

face with brick slips ??

 

[karlosmarshall]

All we did is have are architectural drawings show that the existing dwelling will have a new leaf of brick work no wording or anything just shown on the drawings for reference
I still think the council should of at the very least looked at the drawings and asked the question as to what was meant buy the new leaf but obviously they do not look at the drawing to approve plans even if it is a permitted development as we were not asked anything about that side as it’s not part of the planning consent
I do understand what the enforcement are saying that are permission was granted with the condition that it be built to match the existing dwelling such as material texture and colour but surely if the existing house was refaced prior to building the extension then we are not wrong to do the extension in the same brick especially as the original brick was covered first and this is what there argument is about that the extension matches the original dwelling and in our opinion it dose as the existing brick walls have been replaced
and We are trying not to worry but we have had this letter saying we are to rebuild the extension in red brick within 28 days or seek retrospective planning and im no builder but it’s just not possible to build that extension again in 28 days it’s a stupid unreasonable and unrealistic timeframe to ask of someone
it’s a scary situation as this is our home money and dream to build this home if we have made a mistake then of course I’d seek to try and rectify it as this was not our intention but surely some sort of compromise or plan can be done to sort it out iv even thought if we could paint or stain the brick red or render the extension but all this will probably need planning permission and with retrospective planning how does that work
if it goes to the public again I can already guarantee my lovely neighbours will object as they have nothing better to do but I still think we have done nothing wrong and we simply don’t have the funds to just take on the council
Thanks for all your inputs it means a lot

 

[karlosmarshall]

I also thought of slip brick will that not require planning consent also as it will be another layer on top of what was built under planning permission

 

[Notch7]

Does the new brick facework match the bricks on the rest of the street?

I presume you didn’t just choose a random brick out of context to the street scene



If you replaced the brickwork on the original house to match the extension, the extension would match the house…..would that be compliant then? And if so is that something you could get on with now

 

[mrrusty]

but we also built the new extension using the new brick as why would you use a similar brick to the existing if you have refaced the existing house we just built it all in the same brick as the new face on the existing house so it all looks the same

@Notch7 - my understanding is that the extension and house match, but the house was changed after planning but before the extension was built, hence what does the condition require? extension to match house how it was? or how it is now?

 

[karlosmarshall]

Unfortunately the houses around us are predominantly red brick but not all the houses as some are yellow brick some are rendered and some even have a similar brick we chose so in my view all the houses are different
We chose a traditional look brick because we liked it and never liked the red brick but as iv said we are allowed to change the existing dwellings brick facing walls so we saw no issues with using it we began using this brick to build our orangery in 2016 then we started to reface the existing house probably in 2017 onward and the original house brick walls were pretty much redressed by 2020 when we began to build the extension so it’s been the new brick for years now it’s only now the enforcement are involved since our gable end has been built we just thought that because we had redressed the original walls that we should build the extension to Mach even if the condition stated it was to be built to match the original dwelling materials surely that means the new facings brick as that is the original dwelling now after new walls and if there argument is the extension needs to match the original dwelling then we feel that is what we have done otherwise it would be two different brick buildings which will not be the same and surly that’s worse in regards to public amenities
And it’s a safe bet that unfortunately our neighbours have probably complained as they enjoy doing that to everyone who tries to improve there property for some reason they are so against change in this village and if I’m honest we actually regret ever starting the build or moving here it’s a real nightmare I can’t tell you

 

[mrrusty]

I think we need pictures. The aspect of UK Law that makes it somewhat different from e.g. European legal systems is that at the end of the day if a situation is open to a certain amount of interpretation and subjectivity, a judge will make a judgement and usually will look at what the law intended, and will make a judgement and set a precedent. In this case the condition is there so that developments match the street scene; the intention is that non-conforming materials will not stick out like a sore thumb. (this will never get in front of a judge, but may well get in front of a planning appeal)

You may have enough right on your side to, at the end of the day, show that the condition has been complied with. However if yours is a yellow house in a street of red brick I am not surprised the LA are becoming heavy. Time to put some context - "We chose a traditional look brick because we liked it and never liked the red brick" - what is your "traditional brick"? Did you refer to the local "design guide" for your local authority? if the brick you chose is shown in the design guide for the local area as typical you will certainly have a stronger argument in your favour.

 

[karlosmarshall]

 

[karlosmarshall]

This is the brick we chose as we liked it we never liked the existing red brick but as this was under permitted development there is no reason not to choose your own materials as we can do so without approval and I can understand it’s not entirely in keeping with the other houses on our road but as I said previously we have a house on our road with a yellow brick a house with a brick similar to ours but be it slightly darker and then one is even completely rendered and as for the red brick houses around us they are all different types of red with different looks so in our opinion it’s not going to effect public amenities as other houses have been built ect completely different to the red brick I know it sounds a bit bullish but why are we being penalised
For our brick choice but others have been allowed to go ahead and build in there choices
And I come back to the condition I know it says the extension is to be built using the same material colour and texture of the existing dwelling but if that existing dwelling has been refaced prior to building the extension then surely we are not wrong in building it to match the existing dwelling as it is now with the new brick as it matches if we are to build the extension in a red brick it’s clearly not going to match the existing dwelling as it’s a different brick and keeping it to match the existing dwelling is what there argument is based on and in our opinion it is in keeping