Building inspector/new build issue?

[andyb2000]

Wasn't 100% sure which forum to put this in so please let me know if I'm in the wrong one!

This is an issue with a new house I bought just under 2yrs ago, various problems with the house but this last one has really made me question if I should take this further so would appreciate some advise from those who know better (builders, surveyors, etc).

Detached house with garage build to the side of it (joined by the brickwork but no door/link into the house) and with a standard pitched roof on it.
During heavy rain water started pouring in to one particular spot along the wall (that joins the house) and along the same wall further along you can see the brick and breeze blocks soaked and had water running down them.

The company I bought the house from sent their roofing contractors out who investigated and determined the issue was with the insulation trays have been installed upside down and therefore referred it back to the builders as it wasn't a roofing problem.

This is where I'm lost (not just that they are dragging fixing this, more than 2 weeks still waiting to get it sorted), these insulation trays I've not come across before and how could they be installed upside down. Does this sound right/potential or is this yet more nonsense being told to me?
I do basic DIY myself, car mechanics, etc, so not 'stupid' in these matters but this was a new one to me.

I've taken a few photos to show the areas I've found/looked into.

The first two are inside and show the leaking. In the first photo, difficult to see but if you follow to the top middle of the photo there is a very small nick/mark in the felt that is where the water was pouring in. The second photo shows the soaked breeze blocks (this doesn't show the water running over them!)


Outside photo looking up the roof showing the lead flashing (this is above where the soaked breeze blocks):


And these two photos are again above where the soaked breeze blocks were, and I lifted the lead cladding to look underneath to see what it was in there!



So I guess my questions are, does this sound plausible that this would be the fault, if so what on earth are insulation trays (google hasn't helped much here!). Also, should I be contacting somebody independant to investigate as if these were indeed installed upside down would the council need to be involved (It's a private house) with their building and planning permission department to investigate as I'd assume they signed off the build/checked it?

Thank you anyone who can give me a bit of info, most appreciated.

Regards,
Andy

 

[Himaginn]

I don't have the experience or qualification to comment on your issue.
But do you have legal protection with your household insurance. They might take up your problem, but I believe you must approach them first, i,e, before instigating any remedial work with a builder.

 

[andyb2000]

Thanks Himaginn,

Yes the builders are currently 'investigating' as it is all their fault and within their warranty period, I'm really after a second opinion or if I should be taking it further elsewhere.

My council got back to me confirming it isn't a planning/building control issue and that it would be through the builders and also the house builders association/10 year warranty for the build.

Thanks again.
Andy

 

[r896neo]

You are having trouble finding out about these because i assume they mean cavity trays. Cavity trays are there to catch the water that penetrates the cavity. This water should run down the inside face of the outer leaf and be caught by trays which protrude into the cavity and direct it back outside by way of weep holes. However, If water was actually running in I doubt that is the issue.

The cover flashing extending over the profiled tiles looks to be the only one there and as such is your only line of defense against driving rain. I suspect water is being driven under it by high winds and then its just running down the wall.

A better job would have a cover flashing and then soaker flashings to shed the water between tiles. Thats the way it would always be done here in Ireland but maybe is not the norm with profiled tiles where you are?

You can be certain its a roofing issue if its actually flowing in, not just soaking the wall.

 

[kazuya]

i thought insulation trays went between joists and held the insulation, if they were upside down theyd be stuck up and you wouldnt be able to put the insulation in them, either way what thats got to do with water getting in i dont know, from the pictures id be looking at the flashing too like r896neo said

 

[catlad]

You could get your hosepipe out and spray the wall just above the flashings to simulate rain.

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

I think there are no soakers, which there should be!! Cavity trays, how would you install then to protect a pitched roof? You would need a whole series of them stepped down the wall with a series of bleed holes. Its an interesting construction where a brick outer skin becomes a block internal skin, if there is water dripping down the inside of the outer skin, where does it end up? Fills the bottom of the cavity until it trickles over the garage floor?
Frank

 

[andyb2000]

Thanks for all the info and advice, especially on the correct name of cavity trays!

Yes it is indeed confusing as a lot of people have now told me, this is a brand new home built by one of the large home builder groups in the North-East England, but I'm also not surprised it was built in an odd/not very good way, so many problems since buying the house I'll never be buying from them again due to the huge list of faults.

I'm waiting on anything back from them to see what they are going to do about it, I'll post back interesting points for interest.

 

[r896neo]

Normally open ended stepped trays would be built in at construction like this to create a series of little water falls/ overspills down to the next one in series then an end stop and weep hole at the bottom one. Obviously you need to be well organised but over here in ireland they are a must as they are most often used on gable ends where a pitched roof garage is attached. That often leaves a large expanse of gable end exposed

 

[stuart45]

It's normal over here to use trays as well in a situation where the external wall becomes an internal one below roof level.
Interesting that you use soakers on single lap tiles, whereas here they they don't because of the batten spacing being too long, so the felt turned up the wall and the lead dressed over the profile is used.
There is a secret gutter method sometimes used.

 

[r896neo]

What you describe as a secret gutter is what I would call an end soaker, like a one sided valley. Its amazing what different things get called regionally and depending who you learnt it from.

In ireland MOT type 1 is called blinding and I once had a very confusing discussion with a merchant doing a job in london and trying to order 3 ton bags of blinding.

 

[Himaginn]

In ireland MOT type 1 is called blinding and I once had a very confusing discussion with a merchant doing a job in london and trying to order 3 ton bags of blinding.

Isn't it called scalpings or scrapings, or som'at like that, in other parts of the country?

 

[Nige F]

Cavity trays of Yeovil is the place to look for on the web. MOT called skelpings here in Sussex.

 

[catlad]

What I would like to know is how does the roofer know that the cavity trays have been installed upside down! does he have x-ray vision?

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

After jumping over the building with one leap, he espied the problem. . . . . . . . THE ROOFER !!!!
Frank