Bye Bye Gary

[motorbiking]

None of your smears arise, since my opposition is to actions.

Funnily enough, the actions to which I object, are based on racist, ethnic and religious hatred.

You were wise to delete them.

 

[MNW67]

I don't know, I haven't met any anti-Zionists.

I'm not interested in who you've met. It is very common, though, these days, for people to say that they are against Zionism. That's why I have been trying to find out more about what it means. I wonder whether such people actually know that anti-Zionism means getting rid of the state of Israel.

 

[fillyboy]

The more you research the land of the Jews, as claimed by Zionists, the more confused you become about the amount of land or the borders that are described.
I'm not sure if this in intentional, and reflects the difficulty in tying Israel down to specific terms in agreements demonstrated in numerous negotiations.
You think there's going to be an accord, and at the last minute something else pops up to wreck the accord.

Still nonsense, there are no Israelis, Zionist or otherwise trying to claim the whole of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Still nonsense, there are no Zionists trying to claim Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan.

Zionists believe that the Levant is their divine right.
Different attempts have been made by numerous Zionists to define the boundaries of the Levant.
Some include lebanon, some don't.
Some include Syria, some don't,
Some include Jordan some don't.
And some include Iraq and some don't.

There is no consistent definition of the boundary of the historical almost mythological land of Israel.

As I said, I think this appears to be intentional so that no end will ever be reached by Zionists, of the aspiration of occupying the Historical land of Israel. History seems to be supporting my belief.
Israel has stated their intention to occupy Gaza.
It is slowly eating up the West Bank
It has occupied some parts of Syria for decades and is continuing its advance.
Israel has occupied parts of Jordan and is advancing further.
Israel has occupied parts of lebanon and is advancing further.

Remember a few years ago when Israel was not occupying parts of Gaza, now they want all of it.

 

[denso13]

I'm not interested in who you've met. It is very common, though, these days, for people to say that they are against Zionism. That's why I have been trying to find out more about what it means. I wonder whether such people actually know that anti-Zionism means getting rid of the state of Israel.

You can surely be supportive of Israel's right to exist but not support there Zionist methods and expansion plans?

 

[fillyboy]

There is no consistent definition of the boundary of the historical almost mythological land of Israel.

It was well defined in UN resolution 181 and has shifted over time following the numerous invasions of Israel by the surrounding Arab countries.
They have legally recognised borders and indeed peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt. No legally recognised borders with Lebanon or Syria because those 2 countries have continued to wage war over the years with Israel. Israel illegally occupies a buffer zone in both countries, just as Turkey illegally occupies a buffer zone in the North.
I'm optimistic that before the end of this year there will be dialogue between Israel and Turkey which might bring some stability to the North.

Gaza and West Bank, anyones guess, as long as the Palestinians default to terrorism, there will never be peace, unless of course Israel surrenders, personally I don't envisage seeing that happen.

If only the Palestinians hadn't spent so many years rejecting a two state solution. It could have been so different.

 

[fillyboy]

You can surely be supportive of Israel's right to exist but not support there Zionist methods and expansion plans?

What happened in Gaza on September 12 2005?

 

[denso13]

What happened in Gaza on September 12 2005?

No idea.

 

[Odds]

Doesn't Zionism mean being in favour of a homeland for Jews in what was Palestine. So, if you are an anti-Zionist, surely that means, at some level, that you want to get rid of the state of Israel.

No.
Just this current government of corrupt war criminals.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

It was well defined in UN resolution 181 and has shifted over time f

Not much time, the Resolution was adopted on 29 November 1947.
It set the stage for the Nakba

On that day, the State of Israel came into being. The creation of Israel was a violent process that entailed the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland to establish a Jewish-majority state, as per the aspirations of the Zionist movement.
Between 1947 and 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were made refugees beyond the borders of the state. Zionist forces had taken more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, ethnically cleansed and destroyed about 530 villages and cities, and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in a series of mass atrocities, including more than 70 massacres.
Though May 15, 1948, became the official day for commemorating the Nakba, armed Zionist groups had launched the process of displacement of Palestinians much earlier. In fact, by May 15, half of the total number of Palestinian refugees had already been forcefully expelled from their country.

Israel continues to oppress and dispossess Palestinians to this day, albeit in a less explicit way than that during the Nakba.

The Nakba did not start or end in 1948

Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

www.aljazeera.com

ollowing the numerous invasions of Israel by the surrounding Arab countries.

This was subsequent to the Nakba, the extension of the new Israel, and the expulsion of Palestinians from their ancestral homes and land.
MAy 1948 was the start of the first Arab Israeli war and the end of the Nakba. But the equivalent of the Nakba continues to to this day.

They have legally recognised borders and indeed peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt.

Parts of the West Bank are occupied by Israel, that belonged to Jordan. Also East Jerusalem, which is part of Jordan is occupied by ISrael.

No legally recognised borders with Lebanon or Syria because those 2 countries have continued to wage war over the years with Israel.

The borders are internationally recognised but Israel continues to occupy the Golan Heights, and parts of Lebanon.

Israel illegally occupies a buffer zone in both countries, just as Turkey illegally occupies a buffer zone in the North.

Making excuses for Israel occupation does not remove the fact that ISrael is slowly but surely advancing into Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and facilitates the building of Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
All of this is in alignment with Zionist ambitions.

Gaza and West Bank, anyones guess, as long as the Palestinians default to terrorism, there will never be peace, unless of course Israel surrenders, personally I don't envisage seeing that happen.

Israel has been terrorising the Palestinians in Gaza and the west Bank since the creation of the state of Israel.

If only the Palestinians hadn't spent so many years rejecting a two state solution. It could have been so different.

They had agreed during the Arafat negotiations at the Camp David summit with Bill Clinton, but the Israelis threw a spanner in the works at the last minute.

The summit ended without an agreement, largely due to irreconcilable differences between Israelis and Palestinians on the status of Jerusalem.[1] Its failure is considered one of the main triggers of the Second Intifada.

2000 Camp David Summit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Deleted member 323070]

No idea.

The IDF left Gaza after occupying it since 1967. And fillyboy thinks that was a magnanimous gesture.
it was previously part of Egypt.
But they continued to fire at anyone who dared approach the crossing points or near the buffer zone.

 

[fillyboy]

Parts of the West Bank are occupied by Israel, that belonged to Jordan. Also East Jerusalem, which is part of Jordan is occupied by ISrael.

Wasn't the West Bank annexed by Jordan in 1950?

 

[fillyboy]

The IDF left Gaza after occupying it since 1967. And fillyboy thinks that was a magnanimous gesture.
it was previously part of Egypt.
But they continued to fire at anyone who dared approach the crossing points or near the buffer zone.

Magnanimous gesture? not me. I think it was a dumb move. It allowed Hamas to import and manufacture rockets which they ever increasingly fired at Israel in the long and violent build up to October 7th.

 

[fillyboy]

Israel has been terrorising the Palestinians in Gaza and the west Bank since the creation of the state of Israel.

6 arab countries invaded Israel 24 hours after the creation of the state of Israel.

Palestinians were offered the same terms under UN re 181, they declined the offer choosing to go to war with Israel instead.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Wasn't the West Bank annexed by Jordan in 1950?

It was originally intended to be part of Palestine.
That was opposed by the Arab states. So Jordan claimed it in 1850, as you say.
But that doesn't give Israel the right to build settlements there.