Can I be denied to put my own application?

[Lauren77]

.

 

[Swwils]

You did turn the garden into parking though.

 

[wessex101]

You did turn the garden into parking though.

Extract from Planning Portal ...... "You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally."

The OP's story is very confusing and we don't actually know what the enforcement officer has said, if anything. I suspect it is the pavement crossover rather than the gravel in the front garden that is the problem.

Looking at the aerial photo I can't see a problem. It looks like a minor residential street so planning permission may not even be required. Is it a designated road?

EDIT: On reflection I had assumed it was a planning enforcement officer, I wonder if they were acting on behalf of the highways department????

 

[Lauren77]

Extract from Planning Portal ...... "You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally."

The OP's story is very confusing and we don't actually know what the enforcement officer has said, if anything. I suspect it is the pavement crossover rather than the gravel in the front garden that is the problem.

Looking at the aerial photo I can't see a problem. It looks like a minor residential street so planning permission may not even be required. Is it a designated road?

EDIT: On reflection I had assumed it was a planning enforcement officer, I wonder if they were acting on behalf of the highways department????

I’d hoped it would have made sense but honestly it’s confusing for even us! What would you like to know to help understand?

The enforcement officer has contacted us from a tip off from a neighbour saying that we didn’t have permission to turn our garden into parking.. we had looked on planning portal before going ahead and read the same statement/advice you have quoted. So went ahead to use as parking as we had to take the wall down anyway. but seemed we somehow needed permission to turn our front garden into parking (separate from the drop kerb) despite not being in a conservation area/listed building or any other restrictions connect to the property/land.

This has come 100% from a planning enforcement officer who has said she has spoken to highways since it being made into parking. She has said we had breached planning control creating parking (not taking the wall down) very very confusing!

It is on a B road however the speed is limited to 30.

The issue we have is that she is saying that highway have said they won’t “support any application” which we have taken as we aren’t allowed to re apply but it seems unfair given that there has been a significant change to the original plan.

 

[wessex101]

I’d hoped it would have made sense but honestly it’s confusing for even us! What would you like to know to help understand?

The enforcement officer has contacted us from a tip off from a neighbour saying that we didn’t have permission to turn our garden into parking.. we had looked on planning portal before going ahead and read the same statement/advice you have quoted. So went ahead to use as parking as we had to take the wall down anyway. but seemed we somehow needed permission to turn our front garden into parking (separate from the drop kerb) despite not being in a conservation area/listed building or any other restrictions connect to the property/land.

This has come 100% from a planning enforcement officer who has said she has spoken to highways since it being made into parking. She has said we had breached planning control creating parking (not taking the wall down) very very confusing!

It is on a B road however the speed is limited to 30.

The issue we have is that she is saying that highway have said they won’t “support any application” which we have taken as we aren’t allowed to re apply but it seems unfair given that there has been a significant change to the original plan.

1. What has the enforcement officer said they are going to do? Are they planning on taking action to stop you crossing the pavement with your car? Sometimes they just act tough to try and bully people in to stopping something when in reality they have no intention of taking any action.

2. You need to find out if the road is "designated", I don't know if all B roads are designated. It can be hard to find out as only the council keep a list and they do not usually provide a public copy. A good clue is all designated roads get gritted in the winter, all roads with a bus route are designated etc. For instance the small country lane I live on is designated because it is provides emergency access to a main trunk road nearby.

3. I don't understand what you mean by "re apply". You can make as many applications as you want and it is certainly worth it if the circumstances have changes. Just make sure you emphasize those changes and highlight all the positives in your favour such as other driveways and crossovers in the area. Even if the highways department "do not support" your application you can still go to appeal if it is rejected.

4. The other option is if the council don't take enforcement action just carry on using it and after 4 years you are exempt from enforcement. The trouble with that is you still won't be allowed a dropped kerb.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

The post makes little sense to me tbh, anyway find your county highways guide for roads and in particular the criteria by which they allow dropped kerb applications, that will detail exactly where you can and can't do a dropped kerb, which roads they will not be permitted on, how close to a junction, adjacent driveways etc etc, in my experience there is absolutely no leeway with dropped kerb applications, they either comply with the guidance or they don't. That works both in the applicants favour and to their disadvantage, at least you know before applying if you will get an approval or not. Dropped kerbs that Mrs Miggins did 30 years ago 6 doors down will have zero relevance to what you wish to do.

 

[Tigercubrider]

You could try your local councillor and see if they can help? They can sometimes encourage officers who were having a bad day to take another look. They can't get the rules changed.
I would try to get written proof of what they actually object to?
Afaik a garden that conforms to drainage and isn't in some kind of conservation area can be used for parking?

My next door neighbours totally paved what was once a garden with a short but wide enough drive for two cars and lawn.
My house is a similar to original two car wide drive but guests can park on the lawn if they stay the night.

However we have a drop kerb from new. The hazard of parking on a garden w/o a dropped kerb is that people can park on the road and block you.

 

[Lauren77]

1. What has the enforcement officer said they are going to do? Are they planning on taking action to stop you crossing the pavement with your car? Sometimes they just act tough to try and bully people in to stopping something when in reality they have no intention of taking any action.

2. You need to find out if the road is "designated", I don't know if all B roads are designated. It can be hard to find out as only the council keep a list and they do not usually provide a public copy. A good clue is all designated roads get gritted in the winter, all roads with a bus route are designated etc. For instance the small country lane I live on is designated because it is provides emergency access to a main trunk road nearby.

3. I don't understand what you mean by "re apply". You can make as many applications as you want and it is certainly worth it if the circumstances have changes. Just make sure you emphasize those changes and highlight all the positives in your favour such as other driveways and crossovers in the area. Even if the highways department "do not support" your application you can still go to appeal if it is rejected.

4. The other option is if the council don't take enforcement action just carry on using it and after 4 years you are exempt from enforcement. The trouble with that is you still won't be allowed a dropped kerb.

This is what she had put “would consider taking formal enforcement action to cease the breach of planning control should it be deemed necessary.

In order to ensure that you do not receive a formal notice which shall remain on the land for perpetuity the (LPA) requires the use of the land for parking of motor vehicles to cease with immediate effect.”

But the main issue we have is that she has not contacted anyone at all just simply copied and pasted an old response and hoped we’d comply.. I believe she just wanted to see if we would back down without a question or opinion!

The road is a road that is gritted and I believe one bus uses this road on a 2 hourly basis and the nearest stop is no where near our property..

This was an answer I was looking for! I did think I could make a new application but we’ve never ever been through a process like this at all so again without someone else’s knowledge we wouldn’t know this and I believe this may be what she hoped for, that we’d take her word for it and not re apply!

What might they deem “enforcement action” is that like any correspondence? We feel our neighbour next door may continue to report us so I do feel that may not be an option frustratingly! That’s probably how so many of the very dangerous driveways in our area are in use and seemingly have been without problems for years (talking across zebra crossings, less than 10 metres from junctions, across bus stops!) they don’t have nosy neighbours reporting it‍

Thanks so much for your reply!

 

[Lauren77]

The post makes little sense to me tbh, anyway find your county highways guide for roads and in particular the criteria by which they allow dropped kerb applications, that will detail exactly where you can and can't do a dropped kerb, which roads they will not be permitted on, how close to a junction, adjacent driveways etc etc, in my experience there is absolutely no leeway with dropped kerb applications, they either comply with the guidance or they don't. That works both in the applicants favour and to their disadvantage, at least you know before applying if you will get an approval or not. Dropped kerbs that Mrs Miggins did 30 years ago 6 doors down will have zero relevance to what you wish to do.

Sorry it is a confusing one especially for the likes of me who aren’t really clued up on these sort of things!

Thanks for the tip I will try to seek out that information!

I am trying to see when the drive would have been made it’s certainly not that old of a drive they have a slightly different postcode to our set of terraces but I am trying to find it out to check the planning registry!

Thanks for your reply!

 

[RandomGrinch]

Did you have a look at the council dropped kerb guidance?

Apply to install a new dropped kerb or alter an existing access - Cornwall Council

Find out about dropped kerbs

www.cornwall.gov.uk

Planning permission checklist and guidance notes attached.
You are also in the "Cornwall and Scilly Urban Survey" area, just outside of a conservation area - further restrictions may be in place, or may be considered in the future.

 

[Lauren77]

You could try your local councillor and see if they can help? They can sometimes encourage officers who were having a bad day to take another look. They can't get the rules changed.
I would try to get written proof of what they actually object to?
Afaik a garden that conforms to drainage and isn't in some kind of conservation area can be used for parking?

My next door neighbours totally paved what was once a garden with a short but wide enough drive for two cars and lawn.
My house is a similar to original two car wide drive but guests can park on the lawn if they stay the night.

However we have a drop kerb from new. The hazard of parking on a garden w/o a dropped kerb is that people can park on the road and block you.

That’s a good idea, my grandad is actually a councillor for a parish nearby. Of course it’s not in his forte but maybe it could help!

Yes I’ve asked for a dated documentation from the correspondence from highways and of their objections! Which I know she won’t be able to supply because she’s not done anything other than copy and paste previous comments, no new eyes have seen any of the changes I’ve brought to her attention!

This is what I don’t understand how they’re allowed to try and dictate how we use our own land, surely it’s just a dropped kerb issue? As it’s the crossover which would be essentially used “illegally”. we had begun applying for a dropped kerb (getting contractors out to price up etc!) but they’re saying I can’t use my own land to park my vehicle when it has no constraints attached to the property or land saying I can’t?

See we’re lucky in that sense even without the dropped kerb they won’t really be able to park in front due to double yellow lines and a traffic warden checks regularly so people don’t usually dare to park on the yellows at all. The yellow lines exend from the junction till the start of two properties to the right of us.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Lauren77]

Did you have a look at the council dropped kerb guidance?

Apply to install a new dropped kerb or alter an existing access - Cornwall Council

Find out about dropped kerbs

www.cornwall.gov.uk

Planning permission checklist and guidance notes attached.
You are also in the "Cornwall and Scilly Urban Survey" area, just outside of a conservation area - further restrictions may be in place, or may be considered in the future.

Thank you I had looked at these and we know that permission will be needed for the dropped kerb. And it’s not that the dropped kerb has ever been applied for. The only thing applied for was changing the use of the garden for off-road parking -they also had no issues with the removal of the front boundary wall, just issues with what we use our land for..

We don’t understand about needing permissions for what we use our own land for. I will have a look into the Cornwall and Scilly Urban Survey thank you for that! It’s not something I had heard of previously I do like to try and get clued up on as much as possible so I don’t look silly!

 

[wessex101]

CORRECTION
After reading the guidance in Random Grinch's post it refers to "Classified Roads" NOT "Designated Roads" as I said. I just checked the 2015 GDO and that is indeed the case. My bad, I got that wrong. It must have changed and I didn't notice.

At least I've learnt something new today.

 

[Diver Fred]

The hazard of parking on a garden w/o a dropped kerb is that people can park on the road and block you.

That doesn't stop people where I live - visitors to next door are alway blocking our dropped kerb - 'cause the idle so&so's are unable another 5 yards.

 

[RandomGrinch]

I will have a look into the Cornwall and Scilly Urban Survey

Appraisals and Surveys - Cornwall Council

Strategic Historic Environment Service's appraisals and guidance documentation.

www.cornwall.gov.uk