Can we really manage all electric heating ?

[SimonH2]

One factor I forgot to add ...
At my last job we had instantaneous heaters for the sinks in toilets and kitchens. They were both wasteful and dangerous - and I'm not sure that's something that could be easily fixed without changing the laws of physics - or using the sort of heater that we shudder to see.
If not used for a while, much like combi boilers, takes a while to get hot water - during which you are wasting water and also energy as some of that water is partially heated.
Then it's got heated up and tap is turned off. Next thing, there's expletives in the air as scolding hot water comes out - and the water gets wasted till it's cool enough to use.
Then, for good measure, the overheat stat has been tripped - and so the water goes cold again till it resets.
These were 9kW BTW.
Small stored heat units under the sink avoid these problems - but take up space and have restricted capacity.

 

[SimonH2]

... hence an average power draw/ current of around 0.23 kW/1A.

That's only for hot water - which times 30 million properties is an extra 5 to 10 GW. That's not a small amount and AIUI possibly less than generation reserves at times.
Heating is a different scale altogether

 

[SimonH2]

Oh yes, bit on the news about a big gas supply problem around Falkirk - so loads of lecky heaters handed out. DNO then asking people to show restraint in lecky usage as they'd already had several breakdowns under the extra load

 

[JohnW2]

That's only for hot water - which times 30 million properties is an extra 5 to 10 GW. That's not a small amount and AIUI possibly less than generation reserves at times.

At least partially true, but I don't know how much 'extra' it would represent - there are an awful lot of immersions out there, but I don't know how many of them are actually used on a regulr basis.

In any event, the point I was making (which you also go on to make) is that electric water heating is relatively 'trivial' in comparison with the (currently) essentially unthinkable situation which would arise if those 30 million properties also all had electric space heating!

In any event, unless we change to only nuclear+'renewable' generation and/or the gas-powered generation does an awful lot to 'clean' its emissions, making all domestic properties 'all electric' would probably result in far less 'benefit' (atmosphere-wise) than one might think.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

At my last job we had instantaneous heaters for the sinks in toilets and kitchens. They were both wasteful and dangerous - and I'm not sure that's something that could be easily fixed without changing the laws of physics - or using the sort of heater that we shudder to see.

Do people know that you can wash your hands with cold water?
I can think of no usage of a kitchen sink that could not be done by using a kettle and the cold water so you can put your hands in it.
No wasted water nor electricity.

If not used for a while, much like combi boilers, takes a while to get hot water - during which you are wasting water and also energy as some of that water is partially heated.

How is that different than a DHW cylinder?

Then it's got heated up and tap is turned off. Next thing, there's expletives in the air as scolding hot water comes out - and the water gets wasted till it's cool enough to use.

Yes - people aren't very bright.
Keep the cold water that would be wasted in the basin and it will cool the 'too hot' water - and vice versa.

 

[Diver Fred]

Do people know that you can wash your hands with cold water?
I can think of no usage of a kitchen sink that could not be done by using a kettle and the cold water so you can put your hands in it.
No wasted water nor electricity.


How is that different than a DHW cylinder?


Yes - people aren't very bright.
Keep the cold water that would be wasted in the basin and it will cool the 'too hot' water - and vice versa.

So, so true. Here in East Anglia water is our most expensive utility; hot water doubly so. To get hot water out of the kitchen tap means running off around 5 litres of cold/luke warm water. Boiling the (rapid boil) kettle is quicker than waiting for the hot water to appear at the tap.

I was brought up in house hold where hot running water was a rare luxury so it doesn't seem out of place to me to book water for use in the kitchen (or the bathroom sink).

 

[SimonH2]

Do people know that you can wash your hands with cold water?

Watching some people, it woukd seem not. SWMBO often comment on my cold hands

I can think of no usage of a kitchen sink that could not be done by using a kettle and the cold water so you can put your hands in it.

Mostly, but the same can be said of many modern conveniences.

How is that different than a DHW cylinder?

The hot cylinder puts out hot water straight away - you don't have to wait for it actually start heating the water. OK, there's transit time down the pipe, but it's setting off hot so the faster you run the tap, the quicker the water gets hot at the tap.

Keep the cold water that would be wasted in the basin and it will cool the 'too hot' water - and vice versa.

It's different people. Havingbwatched some if them, I'd not want to wash my pots in theirvsecond hand washing up water. So the usyal scenario is that one person washes their mug while running "copious" amounts of hot water straight down the drain. Then next person comes along, finds the water scolding hot, and so more hot water gets wasted whike they wait for it to be usable.
And don't get me started on how much washing up liquid they use - you'd thing some of them were washing up after the village tea party rather than just one mug