Cellar Floor - Gravel & Slabs

[bennno2005]

Hello.

Firstly I'm new so apologies if I'm posting in the wrong section or made any other mistakes

I've got a Victorian terraced house with a cellar - at present its got a floor which I assume is bricks laid on earth, the floor is slightly damp, gets dirty and fairly uneven.

The walls don't seem to get damp, the ceiling has been boarded and also seems fine too and we have a window down there to ventilate slightly.

The room isn't to be habitable - we've got a condensing dryer, freezer, cross trainer and keep alcohol down there.

I would like to improve the floor slightly so have thought about leaving the bricks, leveling with a fine layer of gravel, blinding with sand then laying patio slabs on top.

Given that I'm not after a habitable space just a level floor that doesn't get my feet dirty when I tread on it does this seem like a good approach or does anyone have any better suggestions.

Obviously I'm trying to do this on the cheap as otherwise I'd be looking at tanking it properly, boarding the walls and building a bar

I've got a head height of just shy of 2.4m so don't have a problem building on top of the existing floor.

Cheers

Ben

 

[TheVictorian]

I'd probably lay a DPM then 50mm of concrete. This isn't good enough for a habitable room (insulation etc) but would give you a practical floor.

 

[bennno2005]

I'd probably lay a DPM then 50mm of concrete. This isn't good enough for a habitable room (insulation etc) but would give you a practical floor.

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't want to put a DPM down as any rising damp may then begin to penetrate through the walls and would not be able to escape through the floor as it would be impermeable.

Also I've not laid concrete before so wouldn't really feel comfortable doing that.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Can't you just scrub the bricks clean? A Victorian brick floor is a joy to behold, even in a gloomy cellar. (I had a similar problem with stone flags. They got a lot dryer once I scrubbed all the earth/soot off them. I don't keep anything directly on the floor though, I put it on ordinary wooden pallettes.)

 

[bennno2005]

Can't you just scrub the bricks clean? A Victorian brick floor is a joy to behold, even in a gloomy cellar.

I haven't considered this as I'd rather a dry, level floor than an uneven pretty one.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

I would think laying sand/gravel on top of the bricks will eventually also soak up the damp to some extent, and the sand will inevitably creep up through the gaps as you walk on the slabs, and make a mess.
Maybe put down a polythene sheet and then place a floating wooden floor on top? (Joists and plywood are very cheap, clean, and easier to alter if you change your mind! Whereas imagine having to scoop up all that sand one day... )

 

[bennno2005]

I would think laying sand/gravel on top of the bricks will eventually also soak up the damp to some extent, and the sand will inevitably creep up through the gaps as you walk on the slabs, and make a mess.
Maybe put down a polythene sheet and then place a suspended wooden floor on top? (Joists and plywood are very cheap, clean, and easier to alter if you change your mind! Whereas imagine having to scoop up all that sand one day... )

Yes good points - this is why I asked.

I spoke to a friend last night who did his cellar. He dug out the bricks, put down a DPM, 25mm PIR insulation and then slabbed on top of it.

I don't want the hassle of digging out the bricks and don't need the head room so what about I level with sand or maybe even a self levelling compound, lay a DPM, 25mm PIR insulation (can only be a good thing as its below the dining room right?) and then use a plywood deck on top as opposed to the slabs.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Could work... although your floor would still be cold, so it could still become damp from condensation instead. The advantage of a wooden floor is the air gap beneath. I certainly wouldn't discard the old brick floor like your friend did -original features of any kind add a lot to house value these days, as long as they're still accessible (albeit covered up).
How big is this cellar, and just how uneven is the floor?

 

[bennno2005]

Could work... although your floor would still be cold, so it could still become damp from condensation instead. The advantage of a wooden floor is the air gap beneath. I certainly wouldn't discard the old brick floor like your friend did -original features of any kind add a lot to house value these days, as long as they're still accessible (albeit covered up).
How big is this cellar, and just how uneven is the floor?

I honestly can't see these bricks adding much in the way of value.

The cellar is 3.2m x 3.9 meters with a loadbearing block wall underneath the hall way wall.

The is maybe 50mm deviation in the surface.

Few photo's so you can see what I'm dealing with:



The biggest dip is by the saw but is difficult to photo:

 

[Gerrydelasel]

I honestly can't see these bricks adding much in the way of value.

That's a classic floor -gorgeous! (I can't tell, but are they blue bricks? Some look different from others) A buyer like me who loves period details would knock a few hundred quid off any offer I made if I knew there was supposed to be a nice floor down there and that you'd got rid of it. But that's just me.

The is maybe 50mm deviation in the surface.

A wooden floor should be rigid enough to even out the bumps without the need for bags of sand. You would just put wedges or slate chippings under the larger cavities (only a few centimetres by the sounds of it).
It looks like you have a clean, relatively dry cellar down there, which is very lucky for you! I wouldn't dare cover it with sand or anything that could soak up and hold moisture over time, whether from beneath or above. But again, that's just me!

 

[bennno2005]

I honestly can't see these bricks adding much in the way of value.

That's a classic floor -gorgeous! (I can't tell, but are they blue bricks? Some look different from others) A buyer like me who loves period details would knock a few hundred quid off any offer I made if I knew there was supposed to be a nice floor down there and that you'd got rid of it. But that's just me.

The is maybe 50mm deviation in the surface.

A wooden floor should be rigid enough to even out the bumps without the need for bags of sand. You would just put wedges or slate chippings under the larger cavities (only a few centimetres by the sounds of it).
It looks like you have a clean, relatively dry cellar down there, which is very lucky for you! I wouldn't dare cover it with sand or anything that could soak up and hold moisture over time, whether from beneath or above. But again, that's just me!

OK thanks for your advice - much appreciated.

You're certainly the first person to refer to the cellar floor as gorgeous! They are blue bricks - you can't really tell on the cellar floor but thats what the stairs on the way down to it are constructed from

A timber floor would be easiest for me without a doubt. Although I've got head height I'd rather eat into as little of it as possible so would I get away with 2x2 battens? How would I fix them to the floor? Presumably I can't screw through the DPM.

Or were you suggesting I just place these on the floor then when i screw in the plywood it would hold them all together?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

They are blue bricks - you can't really tell on the cellar floor but thats what the stairs on the way down to it are constructed from

Double lucky! Don't forget that reclaimed blue bricks cost £2 each so you must have £500 quids worth down there... maybe that's why your friend ripped them up -he flogged them!

would I get away with 2x2 battens?

Easily. I don't know how much weight you're planning to put on there, but you can always space them closely, like 12 inches apart. Should support a tank...

How would I fix them to the floor? Or were you suggesting I just place these on the floor then when i screw in the plywood it would hold them all together?

Sort of. I would build a rigid frame from lengths of 2x2, with noggins every 2 feet or something (imagine a stud wall before the plasterboard goes on, but lying on the floor). Then stuff fragments of slate under the larger gaps, for support and to get it level, then ply on top. So the whole thing is just sitting there, not fixed to the sub floor at all.

 

[bennno2005]

They are blue bricks - you can't really tell on the cellar floor but thats what the stairs on the way down to it are constructed from

Double lucky! Don't forget that reclaimed blue bricks cost £2 each so you must have £500 quids worth down there... maybe that's why your friend ripped them up -he flogged them!

would I get away with 2x2 battens?

Easily. I don't know how much weight you're planning to put on there, but you can always spece them closely, like 12 inches apart. Should support a tank...

How would I fix them to the floor? Or were you suggesting I just place these on the floor then when i screw in the plywood it would hold them all together?

Sort of. I would build a rigid frame from lengths of 2x2, with noggins every 2 feet or something (imagine a stud wall before the plasterboard goes on, but lying on the floor). Then stuff fragments of slate under the larger gaps, for support, then ply on top. So the whole thing is just sitting there, not fixed to the sub floor at all.

Awesome, thanks for the advice. Sounds straight forward enough and I'm glad I asked now.

Good news about the bricks I've got a pile of them in the outhouse sitting there doing nothing too.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Good news about the bricks I've got a pile of them in the outhouse sitting there doing nothing too.

I'd love to pave my yard with blue bricks!

 

[bennno2005]

Making a start on this soon, so about to order the DPM. How far up the walls would you recommend lapping the DPM? Obviously there isn't a DPC in the walls in the cellar, so guessing just above the finish floor would suffice?!