Changing and old 2 gang light switch

[Ragnar_AT]

The "California" system is a highly dangerous contraption that only works with DC-rated switches, in Germany it's known as a Hamburg 2-way circuit. Connect line and neutral to L1 and L2 of both switches and one wire from each COM to the light. Depending on the position of the switches, the light gets either N+N (off), L+N (on) or L+L (off). That means both poles of the light socket(s) can be live even though the light is off, which is quite dangerous with Edison sockets. Apart from that, rocker switches don't have enough of a contact gap to safely break an arc before it turns into a full short in this setup, so they usually burn out fairly quickly if someone replaces the ancient rotary or toggle switches with new rockers.

Some places in Germany loved the Hamburg circuit because in a TN-C system you could have a 2-way light switch and an earthed socket on a 3-core cable.

 

[SUNRAY]

The "California" system is a highly dangerous contraption that only works with DC-rated switches, in Germany it's known as a Hamburg 2-way circuit. Connect line and neutral to L1 and L2 of both switches and one wire from each COM to the light. Depending on the position of the switches, the light gets either N+N (off), L+N (on) or L+L (off). That means both poles of the light socket(s) can be live even though the light is off, which is quite dangerous with Edison sockets. Apart from that, rocker switches don't have enough of a contact gap to safely break an arc before it turns into a full short in this setup, so they usually burn out fairly quickly if someone replaces the ancient rotary or toggle switches with new rockers.

Some places in Germany loved the Hamburg circuit because in a TN-C system you could have a 2-way light switch and an earthed socket on a 3-core cable.

What I know as 'California method' is the same as our conversion format except for some reason they usually take their SL from the opposite end as the L feed. My first hit on Google.

 

[FrodoOne]

The "California" system is a highly dangerous contraption that only works with DC-rated switches, in Germany it's known as a Hamburg 2-way circuit. Connect line and neutral to L1 and L2 of both switches and one wire from each COM to the light. Depending on the position of the switches, the light gets either N+N (off), L+N (on) or L+L (off). That means both poles of the light socket(s) can be live even though the light is off, which is quite dangerous with Edison sockets. Apart from that, rocker switches don't have enough of a contact gap to safely break an arc before it turns into a full short in this setup, so they usually burn out fairly quickly if someone replaces the ancient rotary or toggle switches with new rockers.

Some places in Germany loved the Hamburg circuit because in a TN-C system you could have a 2-way light switch and an earthed socket on a 3-core cable.

You are thinking of the "Carter" system -where the Line AND Neutral can be "switched".

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiway_switching

 

[ericmark]

My assumption with T&E + 2*3C&E with a spare yellow core
View attachment 336003

I have called that school boy wiring, the connector block is not required if wired like this

and if the coms are correct, it does not matter about the other two wires which way around.

And three wire wiring is like wiring the enter, wait, busy lights outside an office, and I have seen flick switches with centre off, but not seen any with the three positions so work three way, always used rotator switches for over two way. I suppose this could be called a three way switch, but we would normally call it a 3 gang switch.

 

[Ragnar_AT]

I got this when I searched for „California three-way“:

California 3 Way Switch Wiring - 3 Way Switch Wiring Diagram & Schematic

California 3 Way Switch Wiring - Web Aug 25 2007 nbsp 0183 32 The quot California quot way of 3 way switching reminded me of an old quot Electric Wiring quot book by Albert A Schuler first published in 1924 I have the 1936 revision The

3wayswitchwiring.com

Maybe the term is used for two different things.

 

[SUNRAY]

I have called that school boy wiring, the connector block is not required if wired like this
View attachment 336923and if the coms are correct, it does not matter about the other two wires which way around.

And three wire wiring is like wiring the enter, wait, busy lights outside an office, and I have seen flick switches with centre off, but not seen any with the three positions so work three way, always used rotator switches for over two way. I suppose this View attachment 336925 could be called a three way switch, but we would normally call it a 3 gang switch.

I think it's unfair to call it 'schoolboy wiring' when it used to be THE way of wiring 2 way switching and even today I still see recent work executed this way, just last week I replaced a (newbuild from last year) broken 3G switch containing 3x 2 way circuits and 4 wagos (2*N & 2*SL). The basic problem being there was not enough room for 4 wagos and the screws heavily tighted to make it flush and cracked the faceplace.

This made so much more space although it did add 4 wires into the switches

 

[SUNRAY]

I got this when I searched for „California three-way“:

California 3 Way Switch Wiring - 3 Way Switch Wiring Diagram & Schematic

California 3 Way Switch Wiring - Web Aug 25 2007 nbsp 0183 32 The quot California quot way of 3 way switching reminded me of an old quot Electric Wiring quot book by Albert A Schuler first published in 1924 I have the 1936 revision The

3wayswitchwiring.com

Maybe the term is used for two different things.

And that points to an extremely confused and contradictive forum.
I'm most certainly not an expert on american wiring practices but until now I've only seen west coast used to describe the neutral switcing method.

Sadly it wasn't all that long ago that I came across that method used here: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/2-way-lights-again-oh-and-why-i-dont-like-domestics.513146/

The more I see of their practices the more I shudder.

 

[JimboMarimbo]

Late to jump on this, and not expecting a reply, but would like to say how interesting to read through the myriad of opinions on a seemingly straight forward "how to wire a light switch" question. This would explain why I have pushed to the back of my mind the home setup switch-replacement I thought would be a doddle - like for like, right? Just a baffling result for me - One light switch at foot of stairs, one light switch up on the landing. Each switch functions to switch the landing light on and off. However, switching the landing light 'on' from foot of stairs, climbing the stairs and clicking the landing switch 'off', the light stays 'on'. Only by going downstairs and switching the light 'off' can normal operation on/off of the landing light be acheived. I've given up on this having tried various landing switch wiring methods - the 'foot of stairs' switch has never been altered, and it used to work normally. I'm going to have to give this to my local friendly electrician when I have a suitable list of 'little jobs' to warrant his call-out fee!

 

[SUNRAY]

Late to jump on this, and not expecting a reply, but would like to say how interesting to read through the myriad of opinions on a seemingly straight forward "how to wire a light switch" question. This would explain why I have pushed to the back of my mind the home setup switch-replacement I thought would be a doddle - like for like, right? Just a baffling result for me - One light switch at foot of stairs, one light switch up on the landing. Each switch functions to switch the landing light on and off. However, switching the landing light 'on' from foot of stairs, climbing the stairs and clicking the landing switch 'off', the light stays 'on'. Only by going downstairs and switching the light 'off' can normal operation on/off of the landing light be acheived. I've given up on this having tried various landing switch wiring methods - the 'foot of stairs' switch has never been altered, and it used to work normally. I'm going to have to give this to my local friendly electrician when I have a suitable list of 'little jobs' to warrant his call-out fee!

Please feel free to start a new thread on the topic, but not here to avoid confusion of answers between the 2 situations.

Pictures are essential, I see you are familiar with doing that and it works well for us. We like to see the wiring of each switch and iff possible which wires come from each cable and the wiring in the light often helps too.

As you have seen there are different ways of doing 2 way switching and our prefered method can get in the way of discussions sometimes but nothing will be lost by asking.

 

[JimboMarimbo]

Noted. Camera and tripod in preparation.

 

[Ragnar_AT]

And that points to an extremely confused and contradictive forum.
I'm most certainly not an expert on american wiring practices but until now I've only seen west coast used to describe the neutral switcing method.

I learned the term "California three-way" for the illegal method years ago reading the ECN forums, a professional-only environment with some amazingly knowledgeable electricians from the US.

California 3-way

Years ago we would wire 3-ways using two conductor cable only and you would end up with a hot and neut in both 3-ways. One two wire from each 3-way to the light and one two wire between the three ways. This was called a "California" System. However I don't remember the co...

www.electrical-contractor.net

California 3-way

Does anyone have a picture of the " California" 3 way. Ran into it today. Trace the wires for one 3-way, the 4-way and the wires coming from the panel. I can not find the wires from the one 3-way that goes from the house to the barn. I look every place.

forums.mikeholt.com

It seems like the name is used for both the legal and the illegal method of wiring a 2-way circuit, not surprising with a term that was never officially recognised.

 

[SUNRAY]

I learned the term "California three-way" for the illegal method years ago reading the ECN forums, a professional-only environment with some amazingly knowledgeable electricians from the US.

California 3-way

Years ago we would wire 3-ways using two conductor cable only and you would end up with a hot and neut in both 3-ways. One two wire from each 3-way to the light and one two wire between the three ways. This was called a "California" System. However I don't remember the co...

www.electrical-contractor.net

California 3-way

Does anyone have a picture of the " California" 3 way. Ran into it today. Trace the wires for one 3-way, the 4-way and the wires coming from the panel. I can not find the wires from the one 3-way that goes from the house to the barn. I look every place.

forums.mikeholt.com

It seems like the name is used for both the legal and the illegal method of wiring a 2-way circuit, not surprising with a term that was never officially recognised.

I'm not that up on american stuff, just picked odd bits up here and there, if they can't make up their minds what to call it, what chance do we have?