Changing ceiling rose over to 5 LED Halers Down Lights

[jamesbates87]

Hi,

I have been reading on a number of forums regarding the above and I think I have got everything in my head that I need to. What I wanted to do is run it by people on here to make sure that it is correct. The responses I see on here are great and the advice is top notch.

I live in Wiltshire, in a new build that is around 6 years old. The other half wants to put down lights into the main bathroom. I have managed to get my hands on 5 Halers LED Natural White lights, after reading the forums and reviews. At the present time there is a ceiling rose in the bathroom, with the standard fitting in picture 1. The first question I have is should I convert this over to a junction box?

I have been looking at junction boxes and the best thing that I should be using as I don't want anything to go wrong with the fittings. I have been looking over the "WAGO BOX" and the fittings to go with it. Are these a good thing to use? I was also looking at the Hager Ashley J501 Junction Box? Or do I just use the old standard Brown Junction box 20amp 4 terminal one?

I have been told that I can run the lights in parallel (I.E Daisy Chain them together) and run them all from the ceiling rose that was there in the first place. The picture two is a VERY simple drawing, but is this correct?

If this is so, what are the best things to use to connect the lights and then the wire going onto the next one? Is it just a simple chocolate box inside a case? Advice would be great on this as this is the one thing that I'm slighty unsure about.

The wire I will be using will be 1mm twin earth cable.

Any help or advice would be great.

Thank you

Jimmy

 

[riveralt]

Firstly this will require Local Authority Building Control notification which will involve applying, paying their fee and then having the new circuit tested at the end of it - or you can use a electrician registered with a competent person scheme.

Secondly, domestic lights are always wired in parallel.

Thirdly, there is no reference to your led driver in the drawing.

Fourthly, you will need to ensure that other building regulations are not broken when you breach the rooms fire barrier. Don't forget that you will need to ensure a minimum of 100mm of insulation free space around each of the downlights, and some around the led driver and the wago and hager junction boxes.

Fifthly, resist SWMBO. You haven't said what the lumens rating is for the downlights but the fact that you are replacing one ceiling light for five downlights must tell you something.

 

[riveralt]

Is it just a simple chocolate box inside a case?

Milk tray are allways good in the loft

 

[jamesbates87]

Milk tray are allways good in the loft

Ha Ha !! Like it !! Thought it would be easier just to put that

 

[jamesbates87]

"Fifthly, resist SWMBO. You haven't said what the lumens rating is for the downlights but the fact that you are replacing one ceiling light for five downlights must tell you something."

I'm slightly lost by the last bit in this:

"but the fact that you are replacing one ceiling light for five downlights must tell you something"

The lights that I have got are these ones:

http://www.halers.com/neutral_white_nw/dl_ba_f_nw__halers_h2/24679_p.html

Thanks

Jimmy

 

[riveralt]

The point I was making is that downlights provide a pool of light in specific (in this case fixed) areas - hence you need more than say a standard ceiling mounted light which casts an even amount of light around the room.
In your case you will have five pools of light in the bathroom and at £50 each that means you are a rich person.

 

[jamesbates87]

Ahhhhhhh I see where your coming from now!!

Well I got the Halers LED lights for £21.50 a light (I bought 20 as we will be doing most of the house over the next year or so)

Thanks for the advice.

Jimmy

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... picture 1 ...
... picture two ...

Thirdly, there is no reference to your led driver in the drawing.

There are no pictures/drawings.

Well I got the Halers LED lights for £21.50 a light (I bought 20 as we will be doing most of the house over the next year or so)

So you're going to spend £430 plus two lots of LABC fees, plus the costs of sorting out the insulation and vapour sealing issues in the loft, destroy your ceilings and make your house far less attractive to any future purchasers in order to make it badly lit.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[jamesbates87]

!So you're going to spend £430 plus two lots of LABC fees, plus the costs of sorting out the insulation and vapour sealing issues in the loft, destroy your ceilings and make your house far less attractive to any future purchasers in order to make it badly lit"

Hi, thanks for replying to the subject.

There's one bit this that I'm slighty lost on and that's the bit that says

"make your house far less attractive to any future purchasers in order to make it badly lit"

Is a ceiling rose better than 5 LED Halers Natural White lights? It's just I have been into a house with them and they look a lot better to me than a ceiling rose. Can you explain what you mean by badly lit?

Thanks

Jimmy

 

[jamesbates87]

P.S

The 20 lights are only doing the main bathroom (5 in there) the En-suite (3 in there) and the Kitchen (12 in there) not all around the house. Thought you may have thought I was using them everywhere.

Thanks

Jimmy

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There's one bit this that I'm slighty lost on and that's the bit that says

"make your house far less attractive to any future purchasers in order to make it badly lit"

Is a ceiling rose better than 5 LED Halers Natural White lights?

In terms of lighting up the room, yes.

It's just I have been into a house with them and they look a lot better to me than a ceiling rose.

They may look better at first glance than a pendant light which is not to your taste - less obtrusive etc. But then no lights at all would be even less obtrusive still.

Can you explain what you mean by badly lit?

In format terms, small diameter lights like those came out of the retail display market, where they were designed to throw small pools of light onto individual items. Ever noticed how a common term for them is spotlights?

They are actually deliberately designed to not be any good for providing general room illumination.

And you know that which is why you know you're going to need lots of them to replace a single light which was of a type which was designed to light up the room.

More and more people are regarding a swiss-cheese ceiling in the same way they view stone cladding.


But the alternatives to little downlighters are not only things like these:

If you want plain recessed lights in kitchen and bathroom ceilings then fine - but use larger ones, for example something like this:



You'll need far fewer, and therefore have far less work to do to comply with Parts C and L of the Building Regulations when you cut holes in the ceilings.

The 20 lights are only doing the main bathroom (5 in there) the En-suite (3 in there) and the Kitchen (12 in there)

So all locations which require notification, and assuming that the bathrooms are on the top floor of a house, two locations where you'll have Part C and Part L issues to deal with.

You're going to be making holes in the ceiling, and there's a cold loft above - not only do you need to stop draughts coming down through the holes you need to stop air from the room getting into the loft.

If warm moist air from the room below gets into the loft, you can get condensation leading to rotting of the roof timbers.

Really you should have a sealed enclosure over the lights which will keep the insulation away from them so they don't overheat, support insulation over the top so that you keep the insulation you need, and act as a barrier to draughts and condensation.

You can either buy a pre-formed cover like this:

- it's not a firehood .

Or build something yourself out of plasterboard, as per the details here: http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NHBCPublicati...ical/StandardsExtra/filedownload,16553,en.pdf

 

[Bill Stickers]

Deleted - Mod3

 

[dhutch]

Ban all sheds doesnt like downlights, if you hadnt noticed.

I cant comment on the installation requirments in terms of declairing the work but it does appear odd your willing spend nearly £500 on lights but not pay for someone to fit them given you do not have the confidence to do so without first posting here?

I would predicted the work would consider somthing to the tune of replacing the rose with a round 4pin junction box or equiv and then running cables from the that to the lights, either in a daisy chain or start topology or most likely a bit of both depending on exact layout, ie something like two cables out of the boc, going chaining to 2/3lights each repectivly.

Daniel

 

[jamesbates87]

Ha Ha !!

I thought as much !!

Thanks for the reply, I have been speaking with a electrician and I will be getting him in to do it. reading through everything, I have noticed that it needs to signed out and things.

I will be doing the prep work for him and then he will be coming in to fit the wires.

Thanks

Jimmy

 

[riveralt]

Ha Ha !!

I have noticed that it needs to signed out and things.

I will be doing the prep work for him and then he will be coming in to fit the wires.

And hopefully provide you with the necessary Electrical Installation Certificate, the schedule of inspections and the schedule of test results.
He should also inform your Local Authority Building Control and you should get a building control certificte from his scheme provider within 3 weeks.

Get all them and you are water tight.