Hi, looking to change a couple of pipes for plastic pipes, the hot copper pipe is not a problem, the cold water pipe is a old steel pioe that runs under floor and inside wall through bedroom and bathroom, trying to kill 2 birds with one stone as the old steel pipe is in the wrong place in the bathroom and I want to replace it, as iam in the process of gutting the kitchen I need to get these pipes changed and some electrics moved so I get my plasterer in and this is holding me up I would like to bury the plastic pipes in wall??? Any suggestions, will try to add pics tge steel pipe is thicker possibly 22mm?? Would it make any difference upstairs if it was changed 2 15mm ?
changing pipes
- Thread starter gillsboy2010
- Start date
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I wouldn't use plastic in a wall, you can't tell where it is later on as there's no way of detecting it, so there's a greater risk of drilling through it. You'd be much better off to use copper. You need to consider the bore of the steel pipe rather than its outside diameter, it's probably old ½" which is 15mm equivalent but it is best to check. If it is ¾" you should replace it with 22mm
Are you saying that you wish to abandon the in-place cold water, galvanised pipe and make a fresh run in plastic pipe? Typically, use 22mm.
Where is the plastic starting from, and where do you propose to run it to?
AAMOI: all external or internal galvanised pipework should be replaced with copper or plastic.
If you have galvanised inside then chances are that your water service, unless replaced, is also in galvanised steel.
Where is the plastic starting from, and where do you propose to run it to?
AAMOI: all external or internal galvanised pipework should be replaced with copper or plastic.
If you have galvanised inside then chances are that your water service, unless replaced, is also in galvanised steel.
Yes the cold feed is the original steel pipe it runs as far as the upstairs bathroom, and it comes out of a wall where I wish it did not hence thats why I thought change it all why doing the kitchen dont really want to box the pipes in as I want that area all plastered an it will spoil the work tops
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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Go 22mm plastic all the way to the fitting and appliance connectors.
If you can, drop it tight to an inside corner, into a chase on the interior wall - this is a free from fixings designated "safe" area.
First be certain that no existing elec. cable is occupying the location.
How, and where, has the hot been run?
Go 22mm plastic all the way to the fitting and appliance connectors.
If you can, drop it tight to an inside corner, into a chase on the interior wall - this is a free from fixings designated "safe" area.
First be certain that no existing elec. cable is occupying the location.
How, and where, has the hot been run?
The hot is 15mm from the look of it its the pipe running up the wall in pics, if look in my profile there pics there, was unable to post them on this post not sure what I was doing !
With respect CBF,
could you reference where in the Regs it refers to "not allowing" pipes in walls?
The Regs refer to not allowing isolators or compression fittings in inaccessible places.
Many approved installations of showers and rads would come unstuck if they couldn't be supplied by pipework enclosed in the wall.
could you reference where in the Regs it refers to "not allowing" pipes in walls?
The Regs refer to not allowing isolators or compression fittings in inaccessible places.
Many approved installations of showers and rads would come unstuck if they couldn't be supplied by pipework enclosed in the wall.
Suggest you read the WRAS guidelines.
Also putting pipe work in walls is daft on the grounds that expansion and contraction of the pipe work will cause cracking.
Also putting pipe work in walls is daft on the grounds that expansion and contraction of the pipe work will cause cracking.
Never heard of one of these before.
Running large pipe work all the way can be detrimental as well and lead to water wastage.
Depending on what is being served and the direction of flow it might be better to go down in size. For example, I only have 10mm plastic feeding my kitchen. Hot water arrives much quicker and with less wastage.
Obviously you aren't going to be feeding a shower or bath with 10mm though.
Dan,
I have read the WRAS Guidelines, "October 2012, Information Note, Schedule 2 Para7 explained"
There are also helpful diagrams showing examples of wall & floor embedded domestic pipework.
There are various, non-cracking, methods of embedding pipework ( including wrapping the pipe ) in a wall chase.
With ref. to the "safe areas":
The implication was to electrical Safe Zones, which i simplified for the DIY'er. Most kitchen fitters and plumbers that i deal with are alert to the zone in question being a "free from fixings ... safe area" that is, until determined free from cables.
See: Basic Guide To Electrical Safety in Dwellings. Routing Cables in Walls. Safe Zones.
FWIW: I too endorse prevention of waste, but i have never encountered a 10mm bathroom or kitchen water supply.
There can sometimes be trouble enough with insert throttled down plastic 22 and 15mm.
The only 10mm that we discover is typically Micro Bore, and due to its troubled history, we replace it with 15mm.
I have read the WRAS Guidelines, "October 2012, Information Note, Schedule 2 Para7 explained"
There are also helpful diagrams showing examples of wall & floor embedded domestic pipework.
There are various, non-cracking, methods of embedding pipework ( including wrapping the pipe ) in a wall chase.
With ref. to the "safe areas":
The implication was to electrical Safe Zones, which i simplified for the DIY'er. Most kitchen fitters and plumbers that i deal with are alert to the zone in question being a "free from fixings ... safe area" that is, until determined free from cables.
See: Basic Guide To Electrical Safety in Dwellings. Routing Cables in Walls. Safe Zones.
FWIW: I too endorse prevention of waste, but i have never encountered a 10mm bathroom or kitchen water supply.
There can sometimes be trouble enough with insert throttled down plastic 22 and 15mm.
The only 10mm that we discover is typically Micro Bore, and due to its troubled history, we replace it with 15mm.
CBF and Dan_Robinson,
Just wondering if you have anything further to add to the above? Just saying.
Just wondering if you have anything further to add to the above? Just saying.
Not really.
You are entitled to your opinion.
I am entitled to think it is wrong.
Running pipes in plaster is going to cause movement and shrinkage. Unless you sink them into a duct which is a lot of ball ache and probably no less work that doing it another way. It might also have structural ramifications depending on how much chasing of the wall is needed.
Joints should be accessible, and yes WRAS does mention concrete floors; but why should a plastered wall be any different?
Pipes in tiled walls will not cause cracking or shrinking so not an issue and the joints are usually accessible from behind the trim plates if the instructions are followed correctly..
Stud walls of course have naff all bearing on the finished plaster; but the OP hasn't stipulated.
I never mentioned bathroom supplies. Only kitchen. Although by extension any sink of basin can be fed from 10mm pipe work to minimise waste water.
My kitchen and utility are plumbed thus. I get 7 litres per minute out of the taps. Hot water arrives a hell of a lot quicker from the thermal store than it used to even though the distance the water travels has increased significantly since the renovations.
As to the OP. He hasn't offered any comments on the configuration of his plumbing, so the 10mm thing can be for reference or inspiration.
Microbore on domestic water has nothing to do with microbore heating, and just because you haven't encountered it before means little.
I haven't encountered Cuban virgins rollings cigars their thighs. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen somewhere. Frequently.
Maybe.
You are entitled to your opinion.
I am entitled to think it is wrong.
Running pipes in plaster is going to cause movement and shrinkage. Unless you sink them into a duct which is a lot of ball ache and probably no less work that doing it another way. It might also have structural ramifications depending on how much chasing of the wall is needed.
Joints should be accessible, and yes WRAS does mention concrete floors; but why should a plastered wall be any different?
Pipes in tiled walls will not cause cracking or shrinking so not an issue and the joints are usually accessible from behind the trim plates if the instructions are followed correctly..
Stud walls of course have naff all bearing on the finished plaster; but the OP hasn't stipulated.
I never mentioned bathroom supplies. Only kitchen. Although by extension any sink of basin can be fed from 10mm pipe work to minimise waste water.
My kitchen and utility are plumbed thus. I get 7 litres per minute out of the taps. Hot water arrives a hell of a lot quicker from the thermal store than it used to even though the distance the water travels has increased significantly since the renovations.
As to the OP. He hasn't offered any comments on the configuration of his plumbing, so the 10mm thing can be for reference or inspiration.
Microbore on domestic water has nothing to do with microbore heating, and just because you haven't encountered it before means little.
I haven't encountered Cuban virgins rollings cigars their thighs. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen somewhere. Frequently.
Maybe.
1. We left the realm of opinion when i was encouraged to read WRAS Regs. Regs are not opinions.
2. The OP required specific advice for a specific situation - i gave him that advice in terms of the WRAS Regs.
3. Why are you persisting in talking about movement and shrinkage? I dealt with that issue above and referred you to the specific WRAS Guidance for confirmation of my point.
4. Joints are not the issue - pipework is what we are talking about. See previous.
5. I dont know why you are talking about: "ducts... structural ramifications ... concrete floors" ?
We are talking about a specific request for pipes in walls. Did you actually read the WRAS reference i posted above? You were obviously previously ignorant of it.
6. You say "pipes in plaster is is going to cause movement and shrinkage" yet below you then contradict yourself and say "pipes in tiled walls will not cause cracking or shrinkage" Are you saying that pipes behind tiles are not plastered in?
7. You "never mentioned bathroom supplies" but the OP did.
8. The microbore term was for heating microbore not domestic. I'm sorry, i was unclear.
9. I've encountered, and stripped, many installations of pipework, esp. 100 yr old lead, behind plaster.There were no indications of swelling or cracking.
10. I'm fascinated by your 10mm experiment and wish you well with it, i think that its good to at least try such environmental friendly installations.
2. The OP required specific advice for a specific situation - i gave him that advice in terms of the WRAS Regs.
3. Why are you persisting in talking about movement and shrinkage? I dealt with that issue above and referred you to the specific WRAS Guidance for confirmation of my point.
4. Joints are not the issue - pipework is what we are talking about. See previous.
5. I dont know why you are talking about: "ducts... structural ramifications ... concrete floors" ?
We are talking about a specific request for pipes in walls. Did you actually read the WRAS reference i posted above? You were obviously previously ignorant of it.
6. You say "pipes in plaster is is going to cause movement and shrinkage" yet below you then contradict yourself and say "pipes in tiled walls will not cause cracking or shrinkage" Are you saying that pipes behind tiles are not plastered in?
7. You "never mentioned bathroom supplies" but the OP did.
8. The microbore term was for heating microbore not domestic. I'm sorry, i was unclear.
9. I've encountered, and stripped, many installations of pipework, esp. 100 yr old lead, behind plaster.There were no indications of swelling or cracking.
10. I'm fascinated by your 10mm experiment and wish you well with it, i think that its good to at least try such environmental friendly installations.
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