Chemical reaction affecting water quality

[fedupjools]

In recent weeks I have gone through the nightmare of learning about the reaction that takes place when the chlorine that is in the water, supposedly reacts with hoses, tap washers and stop tap washers. It began when using the dishwasher everything that came out had a foul lingering for days smell. having thoroughly cleaned and disinfected the DW the smell continued. All of the waste was thoroughly cleaned and hosed, the problem continued. I then changed the dishwasher (it was five years old) to another, which was only 18months old and had not previously been a problem when used elsewhere. In spite of all my efforts the result was the same, Foul smelling crocks.

I then washed everything up in the sink, using very hot water from the tap and found I had the same problem. At the same hot drinks tasted awful. I contacted the water Company in desperation, really stressed by these events.
They advised me to change the tap washers and told me that the washers could reacting to the chlorine in the water supply. I was further advised to fit non return valves to the hose for the Dish washer and finally to replace the washer in the stop tap. These last two jobs have yet to be carried out. I have discovered that there are approved fitting via WRAS as many of the fittings taps /washers ect. available on the high street will not tolerate the chlorine and will cause this reaction with the water. These jobs are costly and inconvenient and take a long time to resolve, when starting from scratch. I am told that water samples taken by the water company have proven to be safe - although the water was not tested at a heat consistent with hot water from the tap or the temperatures achieved in the dishwasher. I have not noticed any problem with cold water it is only evident when really hot.

I have never been made aware of this potential problem and have purchased many fitting over the years with no problems at all.

I am hoping that when these last two jobs are completed my problem will end, however, I feel frustrated and I would suggest that most of the public will not be aware of this and will be equally frustrated in times to come, because there is nothing to create awareness of this problem. I buy a tap because I like it as most do, I do not be the cheaper brands, I might replace a washer, but I wouldn't be aware that it might be the wrong washer, it is an outrage I think, should we ask "will this tap or this washer or this hose, tolerate the chlorine in the water supply" For sure I know what the answers would be!

 

[Agile]

All I can say is that normal plumbing parts do NOT have any problem with the chlorine at the normal concentrations found in mains water.

I have not seen your installation so I dont know what is the problem.

What I do know is that people do get confused by the cause of problems.

One fellow wanted me to send an engineer to check his boiler because it was "smelling"! I pointed out that it was much more likely to be something else. I even suggested the refrigerator.

I sent someone as he was willing to pay. No problem was found. A couple of days later he called to say it had been caused by an overheating fridge compressor.

Tony

 

[Onetap]

It has been discussed here before;
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1693032#1693032

That one started after fitting a new washing machine.

Usually due to cheap, non-WRAS approved hoses and washers. One of the water supply companies also published a leaflet about it, since it is a common complaint.

http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/household/water-quality/facts/tcp/

 

[JohnD]

I have discovered that there are approved fitting via WRAS as many of the fittings taps /washers ect. available on the high street will not tolerate the chlorine and will cause this reaction with the water.

that's interesting, can you show us where you discovered this? I'd like to see the evidence.

You say that both the cold water supply to the dishwasher, and the hot water supply to the kitchen tap, have the same problem, and that you changed the tap washers without any change, so it wasn't them.

Can you say if the supply to the dishwasher, or the supply to the hot tap, is fed from a water tank in the loft?

 

[fedupjools]

Hi John, I got the WRAS info from one of the scientist at Anglian water - I think it is awful, that we are not made aware of the potential problems incorrect spec washers hoses and even taps etc.. are supposedly able to produce, when in contact with the chlorine in the water supply.
My dishwasher is a bosch and so hopefully fitted with quality hoses to answer an earlier response, but I have had the problem with two dishwashers now, so for sure its not likely to be them.. I now have non return valves fitted to the dishwasher a new washer in the Stop tap and the next job is to replace the washers in the tap just in case the ones recently replaced are non approved (Wras) so far the problem remains. An inspector is coming in 10 days time to look at the plumbing in the house to try and find what is happening - the whole installation is five years old only and was completed by a local company who are registered and competent people- so I now have to wait and see...

 

[fedupjools]

Hi John,
the dishwasher is cold fed and I do not have a tank in the loft - I am at my wits end.. I have a combi boiler. The problem is not evident in the cold water only when the water is heated does it happen, the smell and the taste.. I was asked by the scientist to fill a kettle and a sauce pan from the taps in the bathroom - boil them both and make a cuupa tea, which I did - they both had the problem. this seemed to confirm according to the scientist that the problem was with the stop tap washer - When I asked why they did not test the water samples at very hot temperatures, I was told it was because they are only interested in the quality of the water when it enters the property, what happens to it after that is pretty much my problem and not theirs which kinda makes sense.
The real difficulty here is that it is so easy to dismiss this, I have asked other people to confirm what is happening and they have agreed with me, that the taste and the smell from the water when heated is horrid.. So at least I know I'm not going daft lol!

 

[Peet]

It comes a a bit of a surprise to me that washers and piping can react with the amount of Chlorine in tap water. Chlorine is a powerful oxidizing agent but from what I know of how Chlorine is dosed into the water supply it's done in a way that means that very little free chlorine remains by the time it emerges at the tap. This seems to be the reason as to why some people can taste chlorine in the water at certains times of the day and not others. Lengths of supply pipe and the rate of water consumption will vary though.

But I don't doubt that you have a problem. To try to help you figure out what's going on, some thoughts.

What happened around the time the problem began? A new appliance? Work done? Work done in road nearby? Why did the problem appear? Why then? Did new pipes come with the dishwasher and you changed the machine but kept the new pipes?

You may have mentioned it but not specifically - do any of the neighbours have the problem?

........ this seemed to confirm according to the scientist that the problem was with the stop tap washer - .....

I'm amazed that something so small as the stop tap washer could do that. If it was, the chemical must be pretty potent, or some people much more sensitve to it than others. That would also mean that it would contaminant the water more if no water had been used for sometime and the contact time was greater. What happens to the water if you draw off a large amount (like 10-20 times the estimated volume of the pipework) before filling the kettle?

It has been discussed here before;
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1693032#1693032

That one started after fitting a new washing machine.

The thread pointed to onetap is very interesting, and gives me some more ideas to try to track down the source of it.

The reference to an osmotic filter - Have you tried filtering the water either using one of those or something like an activated charcoal filter? Then again putting it in the saucepan and making tea etc. You maybe able to rule out another variable.

Have you tried bottled water or another water source in the same kettle?

I don't see the point of fitting a non-return valve to something like a dishwasher. Unless the water was stood still in the system for a long time. If the cold water was mixing with the hot then that's a health hazard and would need a proper investigation.

Maybe also worth noting that the quarter turn tap valves have ceramic valves in them and not washers.

[/quote]

 

[JohnD]

quarter turn washing machine isoilators that I have looked at have a chromed ball with a hole in it, turning in a white plastic housing.