China and climate change

[transam]

What is the downside to taking action to deal with climate disruption?

well depends

entire economies of some countries are based on exporting oil and gas

with out it there economies GDP will collapse

Saudis
Iran
Russia
kuwait

(to name 4 )

what will they replace it with ?

The world is likely to have to bail em out finacially ? trillions of dollars ?

potentially millions of economic migrants as there countries economies collapse


Venezula have the biggest oil reserves , but there economy has already collapsed

 

[IT Minion]

well depends

entire economies of some countries are based on exporting oil and gas

with out it there economies GDP will collapse

Saudis
Iran
Russia
kuwait

(to name 4 )

what will they replace it with ?

The world is likely to have to bail em out finacially ? trillions of dollars ?

potentially millions of economic migrants as there countries economies collapse


Venezula have the biggest oil reserves , but there economy has already collapsed

As soon as the world stops needing their oil then the middle Eastern states become irrelevant to the rest of the world. Russia will just steal everyone's bitcoins.

 

[transam]

As soon as the world stops needing their oil then the middle Eastern states become irrelevant to the rest of the world. Russia will just steal everyone's bitcoins.

and just quietly accept there fate

un-likely

 

[transam]

The brazillian rain forest will continue to be destroyed at an alarming rate

to stop it trillions of dollars will need to be given as an incentive to brazil

or

military action will be required ?? ( may be)

climate change cannot be reversed neither will it be stopped , its down the collective toilet

 

[Brigadier]

What is the downside to taking action to deal with climate disruption?

Depends who you are.

We had the industrial revolution, the digital / information revolution, we are on the cusp of another revolution.

In each revolution employment increased.

Millions (tens of millions?) are directly employed in the extractive industries, as well as in the processing thereof.
Trillions of dollars' worth of infrastructure will become sub-prime in value.
Could be global economic collapse.

I just hope that the paradigm shift / revolution is over quickly; certainly, it took humans tens of thousands of years to develop tools, then a few thousand to go from rudimentary flints to steam engines, less than two hundred more to walk on the Moon, a few decades from building-sized adding machines to watch-sized computers that are far more powerful.......

 

[IT Minion]

and just quietly accept there fate

un-likely

Saudi have already accepted it and are deliberately expanding to get a more diverse economic base. Saudi Arabia is going into renewable power very hard.

 

[transam]

Saudi have already accepted it and are deliberately expanding to get a more diverse economic base. Saudi Arabia is going into renewable power very hard.

yeah

nowt to worry about than , they will export it all over the world , and become the biggest supplier to the world

 

[IT Minion]

yeah

nowt to worry about than , they will export it all over the world , and become the biggest supplier to the world

It could be worse, the Germans could dominate the world's solar power by strategic use of Beach Towels.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Going out for ... a bit .....

I'm getting worried about transam.
He did say he was going outside for a bit, but he never mentioned anything about him being some time:

"I am just going outside and may be some time."
Lawrence Oates​

Has there been much snow in Surrey? And the thread is about climate change.

​

 

[JohnD]

As a further swipe at Australia for calling for an independent inquiry into the covid source, some months back they slapped an 80% tariff on Aussie beef, they've now banned imports of coal from Australia, now they're having power outages as they need that coal for the power stations.

China's own goal on Australian coal ban gives traders a massive free kick (msn.com)

Some will be amused that having banned Australian coal, China is now paying up to $300/tonne for premium coking coal as it has a shortage in its steelworks.

Premium coking coal from Australia trades at $180/tonne.

"So far there has been little sign of soaring coking coal prices being a close focus of policymakers in Beijing. However, that could change as prices continue to move higher." says the FT.

https://www.ft.com/content/f7762331-9d98-4c40-9b76-d7531911df94

 

[Vinty]

One theory is that global heating could be caused by the heat from solar flares produced by the sun.
The evidence to support this theory is that the CO2 ice caps on Mars are also melting.

https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm

 

[JohnD]

One theory

What do you mean when you use the word "theory?"

Do you mean

"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that scientific tests should be able to provide empirical support for it, or empirical contradiction ("falsify") of it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[1] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which in formal terms is better characterized by the word hypothesis).[2] Scientific theories are distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and from scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of the way nature behaves under certain conditions.

Theories guide the enterprise of finding facts rather than of reaching goals, and are neutral concerning alternatives among values.[3]:131 A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[4]:46"

Or do you mean "crazy idea that hardly anybody believes and cannot be supported by verifiable evidence?"

I suspect the second.

 

[IT Minion]

One theory is that global heating could be caused by the heat from solar flares produced by the sun.
The evidence to support this theory is that the CO2 ice caps on Mars are also melting.

https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm

It's fun that youve linked to an article that explains why the theory is unfounded. It's also 22 years out of date, so by now we should have reliable data from Opportunity, Spirit and Curiosity.

But we don't.

 

[Vinty]

What do you mean when you use the word "theory?"

Do you mean

"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that scientific tests should be able to provide empirical support for it, or empirical contradiction ("falsify") of it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[1] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which in formal terms is better characterized by the word hypothesis).[2] Scientific theories are distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and from scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of the way nature behaves under certain conditions.

Theories guide the enterprise of finding facts rather than of reaching goals, and are neutral concerning alternatives among values.[3]:131 A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[4]:46"

Or do you mean "crazy idea that hardly anybody believes and cannot be supported by verifiable evidence?"

I suspect the second.

Well its either your first definition of the word theory or it could be emissions from Martian flying saucers causing the ice caps to melt.

 

[Vinty]

AFAIK the latest data confirms that Mars is heating up.