Cold water pipe condensation under kitchen sink

[JohnD]

the softener pipes give a little slack for moving it e.g. for servicing. BTW yours is standing on the floor of the cabinet. Softeners are extremely heavy when ful of salt and water (try lifting it) so usually the floor of the cabinet is cut out so they can stand on the real floor.

plastic pipes do not conduct heat as well as copper pipes do, so if yours are dripping it is more likely from a leak than from condensation.

You might consider drilling a hole through the back wall to the outside. Cool dry air can blow in (or warm moist air can blow out). Either will reduce humidity and condensation. You can also feel the surface of the wall to see if it is damp.

 

[KLye]

the softener pipes give a little slack for moving it e.g. for servicing. BTW yours is standing on the floor of the cabinet. Softeners are extremely heavy when ful of salt and water (try lifting it) so usually the floor of the cabinet is cut out so they can stand on the real floor.

plastic pipes do not conduct heat as well as copper pipes do, so if yours are dripping it is more likely from a leak than from condensation.

Ah. Ok. You're not wrong there.. the thing weighs a bl**dy ton.. I had to lift it to clean underneath.

So I've just been back down there now and there's definitely no obvious leak but those plastic pipes feeding the softener are damp to touch and there's visible condensation on the copper pipes and a significant amount on the exterior of the softener unit.

So increase ventilation locally to the area hasn't helped much. I'll have to get up into the extractor fan tomorrow and see if there's any blockage or that it's not working properly.

I've also measured the pipes to order the insulation - did you know John what tape is best to use to keep it tight?

 

[JohnD]

retailers usually have a roll of suitable tape on the same rack.

PVC insulation tape will do, but overlap it.

 

[MJN]

Duct or gaffer tape is good. Cheap, wide (50mm), quick and easy to use and lasts well.

Mathew

 

[vicvapour]

Duct or gaffer tape is good. Cheap, wide (50mm), quick and easy to use and lasts well.

Mathew

Giving out poor advice again, tut tut.

 

[KLye]

Hi all.. so I thought I'd post back with some test results (and after a business trip). After running a humidity monitor for the last few weeks I can confirm the relative humidity in the kitchen averages around 55% - which is not as high as expected but still high enough to cause condensation. Within the cabinet itself, humidity exceeds 75% (although I'm not entirely sure what that infers).

After checking, the extraction fans are working properly and whilst they are running humidity reduces to around 50%. However, when they go off the readings gradually return to 55%. Naturally, if cooking or the like this spikes but opening a window or running he extractors control the issue.

I should point out the humidity elsewhere in the home is less - certainly upstairs can be as low as 45%.

So, apparently this now turns to a question of humidity control and any advice/views/suggestions anyone may have on my situation.

Gracious thanks

 

[UpgradeME]

After running a humidity monitor for the last few weeks I can confirm the relative humidity in the kitchen averages around 55% - which is not as high as expected but still high enough to cause condensation. Within the cabinet itself, humidity exceeds 75% (although I'm not entirely sure what that infers).

I am assuming that's Relative Humidity? (RH tells you how much moisture is in the air relative to the maximum amount the air can hold at that temperature). Therefore the 75% vs 55% would possibly just indicate that it's colder in the cupboard! (Lower temps = less moisture can be held)

So, apparently this now turns to a question of humidity control and any advice/views/suggestions anyone may have on my situation.

My gut feeling is that you have a leak (they can be hard to spot sometimes as the water travels along pipes. You could try the earlier suggestion of tying paper towel at various places to double check!?) - However, if your sure there is no leak, perhaps something like this may help? (no idea if they work, just found it on Google..)

 

[KLye]

I am assuming that's Relative Humidity? (RH tells you how much moisture is in the air relative to the maximum amount the air can hold at that temperature).

Err.. without trying to sound smart.. I thought I did say "relative" humidity?

My gut feeling is that you have a leak (they can be hard to spot sometimes as the water travels along pipes. You could try the earlier suggestion of tying paper towel at various places to double check!?)

I'm pretty positive it's not a leak. I've double and triple checked - the condensation is fairly even across the length of pipes with visible dew formation.

However, if your sure there is no leak, perhaps something like this may help? (no idea if they work, just found it on Google..)

Thanks for that. Yea, I'd considered a dehumidifier.. I suppose this will be my last resort but strikes me as kinda just dealing with the symptoms rather than the cause. The House is new build so really I expect better.

I've actually got some Trades in next week to do some snagging work so I'm going to nab the plumber to look at this properly and get his opinion too.

 

[JohnD]

well if the paper towels and pipe lagging didn't help, I'm out of ideas.

 

[UpgradeME]

Thanks for that. Yea, I'd considered a dehumidifier.. I suppose this will be my last resort but strikes me as kinda just dealing with the symptoms rather than the cause. The House is new build so really I expect better.

The root cause sounds like a high moisture content in the air! by introducing the water softner, you could effectively be creating a 'fridge' in that space, lowering the ambient temperature (especially if you have icy cold mains water like ours). The lower ambient temperature increases the relative humidity level, causing the condensation to occur. (To check if this is happening, put a thermometer in the cupboard and compare against the kitchen room temp.

Possible solutions?

a) Identify any source of evaporating water then remove / lower the overall moisture content in your kitchen / house. In order to prevent mould/bacteria growth the relative humidity levels should ideally be between 45-55%, however, bear in mind that your higher indoor temperature means there is more moisture at any given %.

b) Increase the airflow through the cupboard/house (We recently blocked our open chimney (to stop heat loss), the effect was condensation occuring overnight on the windows following any clothes drying indoors (this never happened before)).

c) Insulate the water softner (as suggested earlier in this thread!) to help prevent the 'fridge effect' in the cupboard, lowering Rh% and the dew-point.

 

[SHOGDIT]

I know this is old,but I have the same problem,I have a dishwasher one side of the cub and a washing machine on the other,So hot pipes and cold dont mix,it is a new property,so I just need to know how to fix the issue

 

[chris1982]

Pipe lagging?

 

[MeldrewsMate]

Have you considered that the softener may be erroneously allowing water to constantly run to drain, causing the softener case to become cold, like the incoming mains water. Test for this by taking the lid off the softener and looking at the water level. Usually it is only a few inches deep, certainly lower than the salt level. If it's high, as high as the overflow pipe level, then it may be the softener causing both a decrease in cupboard temperaure, and decrease in mains water pipework temperature, both contributing to heavy condensation on the pipes, and maybe even the walls of the softener.
Try turning off the mains water overnight and leaving the cupboard doors open too. Condensation gone?
Try turning off just the outlet isolator valve from the softener overnight (and disabling the regeneration function - rtfi). Does the condensation return?

Certainly the cure for condensation on the cold copper pipes is to insulate/lag them, if the tests above prove a softener error, get it repaired.

Hope this helps.
MM

 

[Agile]

In a way all you airflow is probably making things worse by bring in new moisture laden air!

You really do need to reduce your moisture generation.

First move the wet clothes onto an outdoor clothesline.

After a bath or shower open the window there and leave the door closed.

Tony