Competence (please don't move me to Electrics UK!)

[securespark]

Am surprised that some of my new colleagues have zero experience of fault-finding and get stuck when presented with a relatively straightforward problem.

EG: A customer (who swears their light fitting has not been tampered with) has a problem where they can't switch it off. I go round to find that it is a two way. The commons meet at the fitting.

I find the commons connected to each other and the live feed connected to the fitting. No wonder it doesn't work as it should..........

Anyway, to the point.

The reason this is posted here and not in Electrics UK is because I want to find out:

Is there is anyone at your work place who is incompetent (whether completely or just in one aspect of their work) but seem to bumble on regardless "under the radar" of the managers immediately above them?

 

[andy]

Am surprised that some of my new colleagues have zero experience of fault-finding and get stuck when presented with a relatively straightforward problem.

EG: A customer (who swears their light fitting has not been tampered with) has a problem where they can't switch it off. I go round to find that it is a two way. The commons meet at the fitting.

I find the commons connected to each other and the live feed connected to the fitting. No wonder it doesn't work as it should..........

Anyway, to the point.

The reason this is posted here and not in Electrics UK is because I want to find out:

Is there is anyone at your work place who is incompetent (whether completely or just in one aspect of their work) but seem to bumble on regardless "under the radar" of the managers immediately above them?

some people i work with are totally useless. how they manage to have.. wait for it... 8 leaks from 1 solder pipe fitting is beyond me

 

[kendor]

Secure, I believe that the whole electrical installation industry has been diluted by sub standard personnel for some years now, and i do blame the authorities for letting standards slip in education just because of shortages at the time of skilled workers.

They should never have condensed all the knowledge needed from 5 years down to 3 years as it is a physical impossibility to have fitted all that i was taught into such a short timespan.

 

[Big_Spark]

Secure, I believe that the whole electrical installation industry has been diluted by sub standard personnel for some years now, and i do blame the authorities for letting standards slip in education just because of shortages at the time of skilled workers.

They should never have condensed all the knowledge needed from 5 years down to 3 years as it is a physical impossibility to have fitted all that i was taught into such a short timespan.

Kendor you have missed hitting the nail firmly on the head.

It is not simply the amount of Education recieved, but the QUALITY of that education, and the practical experience that the employers offer the trainee's instead of using them as cheap labour and tea makers.

The NICEIC is also partly responsible for the slipping standards, they have fooled the general populous that NICEIC registration means competent tradesman, and we all know that is rubbish.

It is the same with JIB cards..the industry thinks if you have a JIB card your competent..well I have sacked more JIB registered sparks than those who are qualified but not JIB members over the years.

 

[kendor]

Secure, I believe that the whole electrical installation industry has been diluted by sub standard personnel for some years now, and i do blame the authorities for letting standards slip in education just because of shortages at the time of skilled workers.

They should never have condensed all the knowledge needed from 5 years down to 3 years as it is a physical impossibility to have fitted all that i was taught into such a short timespan.

Kendor you have missed hitting the nail firmly on the head.

It is not simply the amount of Education recieved, but the QUALITY of that education, and the practical experience that the employers offer the trainee's instead of using them as cheap labour and tea makers.

The NICEIC is also partly responsible for the slipping standards, they have fooled the general populous that NICEIC registration means competent tradesman, and we all know that is rubbish.

It is the same with JIB cards..the industry thinks if you have a JIB card your competent..well I have sacked more JIB registered sparks than those who are qualified but not JIB members over the years.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and although i didn't elaborate as much as you , i still meant it the same way as you.

It's both quantity and quality that's missing and yes the bit about tea making although a job done in my time also as an apprentice has got worse, we had 6 apprentices at my last job and the first two years of their three years was spent sitting at workbenches reading newspapers and drinking cups of tea, now when i was an apprentice i'd complain if i wasn't receiving enough knowledge/experience but it seems the young of today are lazy and will quite happily just sit there as if it was a free meal ticket to them!

 

[Mr Winston]

shouldn't this be in the electrics forum?

 

[kendor]

just to add to my previous post, In my day and perhaps because there was more ceremony to it to get my indentures was a big honour for me with my parents present to sign the documents and all i felt obliged to try my best during the apprenticeship and to succeed well which i managed.
maybe the attitude is different these days?

 

[Slogger]

i was disconnecting a gas fire ( taking pedestal out ) and installing a gas hob

there was a guy there doing a bit of electrical work fused spur for combi ( it had a plug on )

he connected the brown as a neutral etc i was near and noticed and commented and his reply was ohh i am used to the red and black on older wiring ????? i am not a sparky but when was the last time any of u saw red and black

he had a van with property maintanence sign written scary innit

 

[Big_Spark]

Slogger, if the Flex from the Boiler had Red and Black cores, there is something wrong unless the twonk used a bit of T&E for the link from the spur, however the "Old" wiring colours were used up until last year and you will find them in 99.9% of buildings for the forseeable future.

I agree that the Guy was being a twonk though and the comment about scary...He's probably a Bricky by trade as many of these self-employed "Property Maintenance" types that I encounter are...they know bugger all about plumbing or electrical work, just muddle through.

Kendor

I agree totally with your comments, especially about the indenture papers, I went that route and it is the "only" route as far as I am concerned.

 

[kendor]

in that case how does it make you feel about the industry these days? I know it breaks my heart to see standards falling especially when you consider how much training we had to go through. I believe you can become a junior doctor in 5 years ? Right? I do feel sometimes that i'd have been better off choosing a different job had i known.

 

[andy]

i know how to fault find and can find just about anything. even tho ive never been taught anything about fault finding at college, or at work. its all from past experiance and actually knowin how to use a multimeter etc

 

[kendor]

i know how to fault find and can find just about anything. even tho ive never been taught anything about fault finding at college, or at work. its all from past experiance and actually knowin how to use a multimeter etc

And you believe that all a spark needs to know is how to fault find and use a multimeter?
i could fault find before i even started to work but that didn't give me the tools to go and wire up a house or an office building etc. what do you think they crammed into 5 years of training?
It's more about doing the job to a standard, of safety, quality and technique

 

[andy]

And you believe that all a spark needs to know is how to fault find and use a multimeter?

no, but you need to be able to find faults aswell. things do go wrong.

 

[Big_Spark]

in that case how does it make you feel about the industry these days? I know it breaks my heart to see standards falling especially when you consider how much training we had to go through. I believe you can become a junior doctor in 5 years ? Right? I do feel sometimes that i'd have been better off choosing a different job had i known.

Kendor, It makes me angry and sometimes rather dispondant. I am disillusioned at the state of our industry and the lack of standards and the lack of quality control.

What worries me is that it is not simply the Guys at the sharp end that are the problem, Electrical, Mechanical and Structural Engineers, Architects and Site Management standards are in a deplorable state.

The quality of design and checking is a disgrace, drawings are mickey mouse at best, confusing and potentially dangerous at worst. Schematic drawings for equipment is a disgrace and the average DIYer could do better.

The ENTIRE construction industry and the related trades are in a dire state.

 

[kendor]

Kendor, It makes me angry and sometimes rather dispondant. I am disillusioned at the state of our industry and the lack of standards and the lack of quality control.

What worries me is that it is not simply the Guys at the sharp end that are the problem, Electrical, Mechanical and Structural Engineers, Architects and Site Management standards are in a deplorable state.

The quality of design and checking is a disgrace, drawings are mickey mouse at best, confusing and potentially dangerous at worst. Schematic drawings for equipment is a disgrace and the average DIYer could do better.

The ENTIRE construction industry and the related trades are in a dire state.

I'm 100% with you there.