Compulsary testing

[ricicle]

We can take it as gospel that we as professional Electricians need to test our work as part of our adherance with BS7671 and the Building Regs. and also for our own piece of mind.
And the purpose of this testing would be...........safety.

Now why are some of us on here not promoting the need for testing when it is clear there are people attempting to fit class 1 lights on circuits with no or poor earth. Or tripping times of those sticky RCDs when a new socket has been added. Even recently this one :

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=234941

Certain members are skirting the issue with testing, even with it being an external install.

Come on people which hymn sheet are we going to sing from ?

 

[Chri5]

I see where your coming from and would like to agree.

However since time began people have added to electrical systems and never tested, that isn't going to change.

Same as Part P encourages people to do covert tweaks, moves, changes rather than go via the LABC / scheme contractor route.

Yes I have £1200 or so invested in MFT, metres, probes, socket testers, light pens, proving units, MCB locks, adapters and the ilk- yes it annoys me that some have none.

I'd suggest we simple accept that there is a huge split between DIY and a pro. Hopefully some DIYers will recognise when the work they do requires testing and when they can 'get away' without it.

Ultimately when I leave a site I know it is safe and to standard, I have no need for looking (metaphorically speaking) over my shoulder or having sleepless nights. Above all I have tested the site / work.

DIYers cannot say as such unless they have access and skills to do testing. It is a matter for their own conscience if they leave or make something dangerous that might put them or their loved ones at risk of harm.

Ultimately we are paid and have no choice due to legalities but to do work to standard and test off the work.

 

[electronicsuk]

People come here for advice on DIY electrics. As long as it has been pointed out to them that their work should be tested, it bears no weight on my conscience whether or not they decide to act on that advice.

As long as this remains a DIY forum, I am quite happy to continue handing out advice that allows the DIY'er to complete a job to a reasonable standard, which they would have otherwise gone ahead with anyway and broken god knows how many more regulations in the process.

For small jobs such as adding the extra socket or light here and there, common sense says that as long as people approach said jobs in a careful and logistical manner, the chances of a serious (and unsafe) mistake that would be picked up by testing are minimal. I can't prove or disprove this, of course. It's just my opinion.

 

[LiamPope]

Pointing out what the legal requirements are and stressing the importance of working to a high standard, including testing, is more than sufficient. Ultimately everyone here is an adult and is entitled to decide for themselves to what extent they will heed advice and follow regulations/obey the law. The sort of self-righteous, condescending, holier-than-thou, occasionally hypocritical, willy-waving crap that gets shoved down peoples' throats all to often by certain members is definately not required.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The sort of self-righteous, condescending, holier-than-thou, occasionally hypocritical, willy-waving crap that gets shoved down peoples' throats all to often by certain members is definately not required.

Well, I've never seen anything like that on here

 

[ericmark]

I think professional and DIY have in the past only paid lip service to the whole idea of testing. Inspection of course it automatic as one installs but the whole idea that nothing more than a polarity test should be completed was normal.

Although I don’t like the Part P regulations I have to admit that it forced most domestic electricians to test there work and to fill in the forms showing that the tests have been carried out.

To be fair it was not just the electrician and I know I have worked for a major gas retailer and quit the job because they refused to give me both the time and equipment to test the supply before fitting the new appliance. Many could not afford to quit and had to do as they were told and as a result there must be thousands of cookers fitted that have never had the supply tested.

The Part P has only been in force for 6 years, and to expect the DIY’er to now follow the same regulations that the trade have ignored for years is unrealistic.

The cheapest device to be able to test earth loop impedance is about £60 and even them don’t give a reading just a go / no go LED light. Never used one I have a full test set but although they say they test the RCD I suspect they don’t test the time?

So with a minimum of £60 outlay and where LABC are involved more like £160 to do the job correct one must expect most DIY electrics to completely ignore any testing.

In real terms the biggest problem is the ring main. I am sure there are thousands of so called ring mains that have for one reason or another been broken. On average I would guess one in twenty houses have faults which could result in overloading of the cables and the resultant fire risk.

The whole question of ring v radial has come up many times but how can one condemn a system because people can’t follow the rules?

What we have to consider is how much do we harp on about Part P and testing. The government has tried to reduce the speed of vehicles over many years and used all sorts of measures to stop speeding with very little success. With little or no policing of DIY electrics and the removal from the statue books of the offence of suicide how do we reasonable expect Joe public to pay any attention to the rules on electrical installations?

If we say to ourselves “DIY should be outlawed and we should not help” then will this increase or decrease the amount of unsafe electrical work completed. Most of us feel to keep mum will result in more rather than less danger. Hence in spite of the possibility that there will be the odd job where because of our advice danger is caused on average we remove more danger through our advice than we create so we continue to offer advice.

Some forums do leave them selves wide open. DIYdoctor for example checks all posts before they are published rather than like on here after publishing and of course as a result can’t complain about any inappropriate advise being published as they check first. On this forum the sysops can hand on heart say “sorry I missed that one” and distance themselves from our comments. Not sure on how that reflects on us? But I am sure with most people if I say put your hand in the fire they will have enough sense to realise they should not follow my advice!

Also it is rare to have only one person answer and one would hope mistakes are quickly seen by others and corrected. Anyone not waiting for more than one reply is being a little silly.

But I will continue to give advice until some one wants me to be responsible for errors. At that point I would stop and it would to me be a sad day when we all have to keep mum in case of recriminations.

 

[MalcofArabia]

This subject of testing is something that as so many sides to it.

I know that over in the continent where the use of RCD's have be in place for several years testing was not as in depth as ours is. With the UK now advoacating RCD's and RCBO's will our testing procedures be changed in perhaps 10 yrs time.

I remember when I first became a sparks there were very few of us that could actually test. Testing was with the remit of the more experienced man, the old Approved Electrician. You would do the install and he would do the testing. The early part of a career was working towards that Approved stage. In domestic situations there were literally no testing and I would be interested in knowing the number of incidents occurring 30 or 40 yrs ago as opposed to today.

I think the problem is and no disrespect is intended but with the loss of Industry and apprenticeships in this country the standard a few years ago of producing sparks was woeful at it's best. Electrician is a trade, don't let chippies tell us otherwise, and like all trades must be learnt, well at least the basics. I honestly believe that you can not learn this in a couple of years, after all I still am learning, and a good grounding in the trade is essential.

If we are all honest here we can say with hand on heart we don't need to test our work. I know that a lighting circuit is 1 or 1.5mm, ring circuit 2.5mm, socket radial 4mm, shower cooker 6mm or 10mm depending on rating. We know by experience where and how to install and what is good practice, I don't need a compliance body really to tell me to put sleeving on an earth, or grommet a box and wire a CU so the circuits are all in the right terminals.

What we have is the nanny state due to the vast number of DIY'ers and poorly trained sparks who think that this is a money spinner ...........lol how foolish can they be.

Testing is now neccessary because of this, is it a good thing, I suppose it is in a way, but a better course of action to my mind is training these youngest properly. Give them proper apprenticeships even if it means government subsidy's.............after all Germany and France still have them. but then they also have industries, we are a nation now of shop keepers!!

 

[ricicle]

If we are all honest here we can say with hand on heart we don't need to test our work. I know that a lighting circuit is 1 or 1.5mm, ring circuit 2.5mm, socket radial 4mm, shower cooker 6mm or 10mm depending on rating. We know by experience where and how to install and what is good practice, I don't need a compliance body really to tell me to put sleeving on an earth, or grommet a box and wire a CU so the circuits are all in the right terminals.
!!

But how do you know that the lighting cpc that you have connected to that metallic light fitting is actually continuous back to the MET or that the RCD on the socket circuit you have worked on will trip in time to provide the supplementary protection that it is there for