Concerns over wood flooring

[JakCal]

Hi,

I hope that you can please offer me some advice. I intend to floor my lounge and dining area of a kitchen/diner (approx. 22 m2) and currently have the inflexible thermo-plastic tiles on a concrete floor. These I believe date back to when the house was built in the mid '80's. The kitchen area is to be ceramic tiled.

a. Can either solid wood or engineered be laid ontop of my existing floor or do I need to remove tiles and asphalt?

b. What underlay would be required?

c. Do I still need to check for damp or should it be ok?

d. I'm aware that neither of these floors like water, so I intend to ceramic tile the kitchen area. The washing machine is approx. 4 feet from where the floor would finish, is that a reasonable distance to avoid any future potential water damage?

e. Do I need to leave a gap between the floor and ceramics? If so how do I conceal this gap?


My specific concerns with solid wood floors.

f. Expansion/shrinkage post installation. Does this always happen?

g. Do I need to monitor the humidity constantly?




I'm looking at RealwoodLOC which a solid oak floor available from BnQ. Has anyone ever used it and what did you think? Looking at the sample instore it looks likes it's laid by just clicking it into place. Which seems to remove the need for glueing or nailing. This sounds a great idea.

h. Can you see any pitfalls with this method?

Sorry for so many questions, but I would rather get it right 1st time with your help then walk into an obvious mistake later.

Thankyou for all replies.

Happy Easter

 

[WoodYouLike]

The floor at B&Q conveniently doesn't state how long your boards will be - 9 times out of 10 it will be random length with a lot - too many - short lengths.

Wood-Engineered boards in your case - close to an area where there is more moist - would be much better. Click-systems are not all they are told to be, again due to the close proximity of the kitchen you should glue the T&G's any way. You're better off with simple T&G construction.

As for your "bold" questions: you can leave the plastic tiles in situ IF they are firmly stuck down and you use an underlayment that contains a DPM to prevent "sweating" from the tiles effecting the wood.
Type of underfloor is type of underlayment

You do need to leave an expansion gap all around the perimeter of the wood floor, so also in front of the tiles.
Gaps! They are there for a very good reason!

Make sure you buy your wood-engineered floor from a company that does know how to store it and leave the wood (packed) in the area where it is going to be installed for 3 - 4 days.

Happy Easter!

 

[mac391]

Some come on here for the pleasure of offering sound advice and some hope you'll visit there websites with endless links !! in the hope you will buy from them? i'm sure you will make your own mind up..

Ceramic tiles and adhesive make for a height of approx 12/14mm (10mm ceramic tiles & 2-4mm adhesive) from original sub-floor, so the adjoinging wood floor should also equal this thickness or you will have a dividing profile (for the expansion gap) that is "stepped", making an obvious height difference where the 2 floors meet.

There ae numerous ways to achieve this but first choose your ceramics then your wood as a compliment.

Also, i would beg the question, why would you leave a wood floor "packed" in the room it is meant to be installed ? The idea of this is for the new floor to "acclimatise" to conditions, how is this achieved if the flooring is packed in boxes covered with selethane or plastic?

 

[WoodYouLike]

I could of course write all the text of the public available articles I link to -might create a whole page with this. Access to info freely available - no hidden objectives - never. If it would be considered as advertising Admin and the Moderators would have slapped my wrist long time ago. Quid pro quo

Your own advice on gaps is an echo, plus there are plenty of choices in dividers, even if the floor level does not exactly matches (plenty of situation where they don't) - and as for leaving the wood in the packs:

* it will acclimatise as quick as unpacked without the risk of being damaged by whatever is going on the area still
* do you never read the instructions from the manufacturer?

I don't plan to start a yes/no topic here or who knows best or whatever. I do mind and object to your

Some come on here for the pleasure of offering sound advice and some hope you'll visit there websites with endless links !! in the hope you will buy from them? i'm sure you will make your own mind up..

Happy Easter

 

[JakCal]

Thankyou very much to you both for your replies.

After yesterdays events (cambelt on car) I now need to review/slash my budget *grumble*. This almost makes engineered prohibited due to cost, unless I go with an 3 strip 11mm board I've seen (but it's only offered with a 1 year warranty for some reason).

Baring in mind my subfloor, Is using a solid floor out of the question in my case then? I have read about monitoring humidity levels and even putting damp towels on rads (which I don't fancy doing on a cyclical basis) to help the problem. Once laid I would like to forget about it until it's due it's routine maintenance (whatever you recommend).

What about t&g floorboards, my wife has seen some French Polished ones in BnQ and although I don't love the colour they are 21mm thick. So plenty of scope to resand and colour in a couple of years time. They work out at £13.26 m2.

I've also read here that the width of the rooms come into play in relation to how solid floors are fitted. My lounge measure 3.7m x 5m(at the widest part) and the diner 2.7m x 2.2m (w). Between the rooms is a pair of bifold doors(which spend most of their time open). My original plan was a continuous flow from the lounge into the diner and then tile into the kitchen area, but again I don't know if this is possible as I've read about different rooms and environments and having a threshold between rooms. If the height difference was too much could I not ply out the kitchen area and raise the floor that way?

I believe you when you say that engineered is the way to go, but as I said it appears to be prohibited. I'm ready to buy now, it's just a question of getting the biggest bang and all that.

Thanks again!

 

[WoodYouLike]

Just read the review on the French Flooring, doesn't bode well for an area you have in mind where there is constant traffic. Pine is softwood and will indent and damage rather easily. You can sand it often enough, that's right - but the hassle?

Solid floors - as long as you keep the width narrow - should be all right in your case, and the moist/humidity will not be so much of a problem since it IMHO connects to an open kitchen area? That's the main reason why I suggested wood-engineered to be more suitable in your situation - more chance of higher humidity than too low humidity.

If you install your floor contentiously in the two rooms how WIDE would the floor be - again a link to an article to make this point clearer:
Direction of installation determines the size of gap

I wouldn't expect too much quality for around the £ 14.00 - £ 15.00 ex VAT per sq m mark for wood flooring - sorry.

 

[JakCal]

If you install your floor contentiously in the two rooms how WIDE would the floor be - again a link to an article to make this point clearer:
Direction of installation determines the size of gap

I wouldn't expect too much quality for around the £ 14.00 - £ 15.00 ex VAT per sq m mark for wood flooring - sorry.

The longest run would be 6.4m (approx) going from front of house to back. My intention was to lay the boards in this direction.

What's your opinions on Parawood. 15mm thick and It's offered with a 12 year warranty, but noticed that the pack we looked at earlier had a slightly greenish hue to it.

Or this is the 11mm, 3 strip. The 1 year warranty is putting me off.

Edit: I thought the quality on engineered is gauged on overall thickness and wear layer. What else dictates this? Is it purely price?
Floors2go reduced This from £17.00 to £13.50m2 over the phone. Havent seen it yet, but it 14mm thick with a 4mm wear layer.

 

[WoodYouLike]

The Parawood IMHO would be too wide for your circumstances, too wide for any solid floor in our idea.

I would sooner opt for the 3-strip for various reasons: wood-engineered (well, more wood-veneer but still), so can be wider without problems, within your budget I guess and if you take normal care with it will last you longer than that 1 year.
The only objection I have to B&Q's desciption is the fact you could sand it 2 - 3 times, no way or they expect you to do it manually? A proper sanding - if ever needed - with a proper sanding machine will take off 1 - 1.5mm. B&Q does not state how thick the solid top layer is (or I don't see where they mention this). 11mm total thickness normally means a solid top layer between 0.6 - 1.8 mm - do the calculations yourself.

 

[JakCal]

Sorry while editing my last post you replied. Just to reiterate:

I thought the quality on engineered is gauged on overall thickness and wear layer. What else dictates this? Is it purely price?
Floors2go reduced This from £17.00 to £13.50m2 over the phone. Havent seen it yet, but it 14mm thick with a 4mm wear layer.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Sorry while editing my last post you replied. Just to reiterate:

I thought the quality on engineered is gauged on overall thickness and wear layer. What else dictates this? Is it purely price?

Price, grade of Oak (extra rustic is lower in price than Prime etc) but the quality is also best regarded by comparing the construction (mdf backing or quality pine backing) and quality of T&G (proper fit yes of no)

Floors2go reduced This from £17.00 to £13.50m2 over the phone. Havent seen it yet, but it 14mm thick with a 4mm wear layer.

Sounds better than the B&Q - although me and F2G are not the best of friends

Do have a look before you buy and do ask a sales person some technical questions - but to be honest, they can't help it, most are hired on sales technique not on floor knowledge

 

[Richard C]

Some come on here for the pleasure of offering sound advice and some hope you'll visit there websites with endless links !! in the hope you will buy from them? i'm sure you will make your own mind up..

We do get them from time to time & I do not disagree with your sentiment but many of the regulars on this forum work in the trade on which they give advice & many use links to save time; it all makes for sound advice. If you take some time to read through even a few archive posts, you will see that in this case the advice given is always informative & sound & not just a case of pushing links to a website; if it were admin would quickly stamp on it.

You’re criticism of a long standing & knowledgeable contributor is unfair.

 

[mac391]

Hi Jackal

There are several factors that decipher the price. As you said, overall thickness and wear layer is one. 3 strip, 2 strip and single strip in an engineered board is another. The width is another, then the grade, prime, character and rustic.

The grade is important as it defines the character of your new floor. Normally it is suficient to grade a hardwood floor in 3 grades as above but sometimes, depending on the species you need to divide them into far more categories to depict colour and grain differences.

You can safely assume that both B&Q and floors2go generally only cover one grade, that being the cheapest, rustic !!

The country of origin also plays a part. You can buy English, French, European and american oak for instance with these grades in mind from specialists or you can go to floors2go/B&Q and buy cheap chinese crap, hence your 1 year guarantee.

As for instructions for use ?? They scrape by British Standards for legal purposes only, the rest is for you DIYers to get wrong, then try to make a claim.

There is plenty of good/sound advice out there on selection and installation but you get what you pay for!!

 

[mac391]

It is fair. I often quote links to sites for information purposes but never to my own. And i never try to persuade onyone looking for a new hardwood floor that "floating" is the best option., which for me, doesn't equall sound advice!! The majority of the problems posted on here are about "floating floors"

Some come on here for the pleasure of offering sound advice and some hope you'll visit there websites with endless links !! in the hope you will buy from them? i'm sure you will make your own mind up..

We do get them from time to time & I do not disagree with your sentiment but many of the regulars on this forum work in the trade on which they give advice & many use links to save time; it all makes for sound advice. If you take some time to read through even a few archive posts, you will see that in this case the advice given is always informative & sound & not just a case of pushing links to a website; if it were admin would quickly stamp on it.

You’re criticism of a long standing & knowledgeable contributor is unfair.

 

[WoodYouLike]

And what has your website to offer diy-ers here, mac? Like ours over 300 pages and articles of free advice?

You're more than welcome not to agree with our business ethics, but that won't change my behaviour in linking to appropriate articles to help to make sure everone end up with that floor that's most suited for their circumstances, their interior wishes and their budget. We've been doing this here since end 2004 and your ideas how one should reply will not change this.

Happy Easter

 

[JakCal]

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

I live on the Isle of Wight and we're not overun with flooring companies here. Today I'm going to try and visit the ones that are available to me. Buying from F2G is going to add about £80.00 to cost due to travel expenses and no guarantees we'll like what we see.

Woodyoulike, On the subject of the French Polished. My wife and I are finding it increasingly difficult to discard this option. I read the review but didn't see what you meant about it. Will the indentations and marks you mentioned not just add to the character of the floor? I also read the guides you posted links to about underlayment and presume the "combilay" would be what I needed here. Would I just glue the t&g together? I'm concerned (maybe overly) about the floor creaking and groaning and so I've added a (rough) floorplan below for you or anyone else to highlight any potential problems.

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I hope you all have enjoyed your Easter weekend.