condensation
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This is called "trap condensation" cause by central heating warm air,washing machine,tumble dryer,bath/shower steam,kettle,cooking and breathing !!! The condensation will always go to the coldest spot as you say your windows which is the most common and opening the windows won't help if it's damp outside..
The problem in today property we are so well insulated and we're making it worse plus making us ill with bacteria/germs around all to save heating bills and make you wonder if we're doing the right thing!! I have mention this before you cannot beat a draughty windows and open fire for good ventilation which is good for our health,I remember the old lead-light window type letting in air, those were the days!
Yes, a dehumidifier would cure your problem but must leave it on 24/7 to benefit and will make the place warmer as it take the moisture away.Expect it to take a few days to collect the moisture before you start to see results.I have mine in the utility room with a permanent drain to waste to prevent me to keeps emptying the water tank and great for drying out clothes.They have a quite humming noise but can be slightly noiser when melting down water into tank but will improve once the moisture is under control and don't want it near the bedroom if you're a light sleeper.
The problem in today property we are so well insulated and we're making it worse plus making us ill with bacteria/germs around all to save heating bills and make you wonder if we're doing the right thing!! I have mention this before you cannot beat a draughty windows and open fire for good ventilation which is good for our health,I remember the old lead-light window type letting in air, those were the days!
Yes, a dehumidifier would cure your problem but must leave it on 24/7 to benefit and will make the place warmer as it take the moisture away.Expect it to take a few days to collect the moisture before you start to see results.I have mine in the utility room with a permanent drain to waste to prevent me to keeps emptying the water tank and great for drying out clothes.They have a quite humming noise but can be slightly noiser when melting down water into tank but will improve once the moisture is under control and don't want it near the bedroom if you're a light sleeper.
B****y Hell !! You're older than me !!masona said:
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It is unusual to get condensation on the inside of double glazing. Condensation is caused by water vapour condensing on cold surfaces. Cold surfaces occur where there is a steep thermal gradient. For example on single glazing where there is a large difference in temperature across a small thickness of around 4mm. Cure is by removing the sources of water vapour or reducing the thermal gradients by insulating. Clearly you cannot insulate window panes. Is the condensation on the framework as well as the glass? You may have a source of water vapour you are unaware of and you could remove such as: a dryer whose vent pipe is not venting outside, paraffin heaters, a shower without a nearby mechanical vent to the outside, a faulty central heating flue etc. Is the double glazing the manufactured type with the standard 6mm (or thereabouts) gap? If it is the DIY type of secondary glazing then there could be gaps that allow moist air to get to the outer pane. If none of these apply then you may consider a third glazing layer (or perspex) inside the existing glass.
Have to disagree,I have a secondary glazing in my bedroom 6" away from my double glazing for noise reason as I do shiftwork.There is condensation on the glass being the coldest surface of the room but stop since we use dehumidifier.The problems today we are too well insulated for the moisture to escape anywhere,so the moisture find the coldest spot and that is the window glass!Doris said:
Masona is spot on with the condensation versus ventilation. Today's mantra is "save heat", so all the draughts (read "ventilation") are stopped and the humidity rises. Instead of putting on a jumper turn the thermostat up. As the air outside gets more humid so does the air inside until the dew point is reached at the glass surface, and you get condensation.
Humidifiers don't do much good as they need 70 deg F and about 98% RH before they can extract much moisture. A humidifier manufacturer John Arrosmith, used to say when he was alive, that using a humidifier in a house was as much use as standing under a waterfall with a mop and bucket, and the cure for damp in houses was ventilation. He even wrote a piece for Which about the lack of benefits of a humidifier. These were not limited to their inability to extract moisture from cold air, but also their ability to promote growing conditions for bacteria on the heat exchanger. This could be cured by using copper heat exchangers, but most makers uae aluminium, which is nowhere near as toxic as copper to bacteria. Most of the drying benefit from the humidifier comes from the power input to the motor. So you could use a small heater.
Most peoples ventilation is likely to be fresh air into the living room, then move it to a cooler and cooler rooms then shove it out of the toilet window. All the while the air is getting more and more humid. Change the flow and get fresh air in the toilet and move it to warmer and warmer rooms, then shove it up the chimney.
Condensation is best cured by VENTILATION!!.
If you don't get condensing moisture on the windows, it will go into the building fabric somewhere else. (and then it will get called things like "rising damp", which incidentally, if you think it exists, Lewisham council will give you a reward if you can show them a case which proves to be rising damp.)
Humidifiers don't do much good as they need 70 deg F and about 98% RH before they can extract much moisture. A humidifier manufacturer John Arrosmith, used to say when he was alive, that using a humidifier in a house was as much use as standing under a waterfall with a mop and bucket, and the cure for damp in houses was ventilation. He even wrote a piece for Which about the lack of benefits of a humidifier. These were not limited to their inability to extract moisture from cold air, but also their ability to promote growing conditions for bacteria on the heat exchanger. This could be cured by using copper heat exchangers, but most makers uae aluminium, which is nowhere near as toxic as copper to bacteria. Most of the drying benefit from the humidifier comes from the power input to the motor. So you could use a small heater.
Most peoples ventilation is likely to be fresh air into the living room, then move it to a cooler and cooler rooms then shove it out of the toilet window. All the while the air is getting more and more humid. Change the flow and get fresh air in the toilet and move it to warmer and warmer rooms, then shove it up the chimney.
Condensation is best cured by VENTILATION!!.
If you don't get condensing moisture on the windows, it will go into the building fabric somewhere else. (and then it will get called things like "rising damp", which incidentally, if you think it exists, Lewisham council will give you a reward if you can show them a case which proves to be rising damp.)
oilman said:
I didn't know that,I thought if the dehumidifier is collecting the water then the moistures is moving away from the windows.I must admit,they works very well but having said that I'm being to wondered if it affecting our health ???? The real advantage I would say is for drying clothes in our utility room.
This is probably a satisfactory use, I imagine the utility room is hot and humid which are the conditions that suit a dehumidifier. I have one which was supposed to remove litres of water per day, it was a cold damp room, and the thing removesd about a cupful per day.
In the end, the fix was replace the Crittal windowframes with wooden ones and put external insulation covered with wood cladding over the walls.
Whilst living in a caravan for a while we had quite a bit of condensation. We found some small moisture traps, plastic containers (Woolworths I think for about £5) in which you place a strange white powder in that collect the water beneath, cheap small effective and silent. Ideal for inside wardrobes.
I have explained how condensation occurs in some detail on another thread quite recently, so do look it up if you want to understand it. I am not going to explain in detail again here as my other post has links to a psychometric chart which shows graphically the relationship between wet buld temparature, dry bulb temparature, and relative humidity.
In short though there are only four things you can do that may reduce the risk of condensation. Reduce the amount of moisture produced by household activities (for example by putting lids on pans when cooking) Improve your ventilation so as to get excess moisture out of your house. Raise the internal temparature of the house to as to enable the air to hold a greater volume of water vapour. Improve your insulation so as to move the dew point away from the internal surface. On the last point care needs to be taken for those with cavity walls as moving the dew point outwards may cause interstitial condensation (condensation in the cavity), corrode the wall ties, and lead to structural instability.
oilman is wrong in suggesting condensation could cause rising damp, but he was correct about Lewisham Councils claim that rising damp does not exist. I am a chartered building surveyor and despite examining hundreds of damp building have never seen a case of true rising damp. Experiments were carried out by a chap called Jeff Howell at South Bank University whilst I was an undergraduate there and he was not able to produce rising damp in the laboratory.
There are only five possible causes of damp, even if you include the possibility of rising damp. Leaks from internal pipework, penetrating damp, condensation and rising damp. The last is hygroscopicity, which also accounts for how the strange white powder firegazer mentions works....
Plaster can be contaminated with hygroscopic materials (normally salts) when it is mixed or by salts being washed from the brickwork into the plaster. Hygroscopic materials attract moisture, hence they "suck" the moisture from the air into the plaster. The strange white powder was almost certainly salt and it you try leaving a bowl of salt in your bathroom for a couple of hours you will see how it works.
In short though there are only four things you can do that may reduce the risk of condensation. Reduce the amount of moisture produced by household activities (for example by putting lids on pans when cooking) Improve your ventilation so as to get excess moisture out of your house. Raise the internal temparature of the house to as to enable the air to hold a greater volume of water vapour. Improve your insulation so as to move the dew point away from the internal surface. On the last point care needs to be taken for those with cavity walls as moving the dew point outwards may cause interstitial condensation (condensation in the cavity), corrode the wall ties, and lead to structural instability.
oilman is wrong in suggesting condensation could cause rising damp, but he was correct about Lewisham Councils claim that rising damp does not exist. I am a chartered building surveyor and despite examining hundreds of damp building have never seen a case of true rising damp. Experiments were carried out by a chap called Jeff Howell at South Bank University whilst I was an undergraduate there and he was not able to produce rising damp in the laboratory.
There are only five possible causes of damp, even if you include the possibility of rising damp. Leaks from internal pipework, penetrating damp, condensation and rising damp. The last is hygroscopicity, which also accounts for how the strange white powder firegazer mentions works....
Plaster can be contaminated with hygroscopic materials (normally salts) when it is mixed or by salts being washed from the brickwork into the plaster. Hygroscopic materials attract moisture, hence they "suck" the moisture from the air into the plaster. The strange white powder was almost certainly salt and it you try leaving a bowl of salt in your bathroom for a couple of hours you will see how it works.
B
breezer
oilman said:
...........and here are tonights results
oilman 1 GwaiLo 0
sorry about that
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