Conservation area madness

[tekanaka]

I live in a conservation area, I am looking to do a loft conversion, but I'm going up against some complete madness with the council.

The loft is a good size space, so would be a massive relief to a growing family without having to root up the kids and move area (which I can't even afford to do).

However, I am end of terrace and my staircase is on the external wall, which would mean I need a side dormer to create the space for the staircase into the loft.

The interesting bit is that the conservation area guidelines do allow a side dormer if proportional and within certain parameters. All of this my architects have followed. The council has rejected the planning application as being "ugly" and ruining the neighbourhood. They didn't point out any part of the guidelines as being infringed, they just relied on very subjective opinions.

Additionally, the neighbourhood is already full of these side dormers, some which have been built before the area became a conservation area but some which have actually been approved after. However, the council refuse to consider the previous approved cases on the basis that each application should be considered on its own. For the last 3 years they have consistently rejected every side dormer, despite having approved a number before that. No other resident has objected.

So I know I could go through the appeal process, but just wondering if that also fails, what scope do I have to fight such seemingly illogical behaviour by building it anyway and then fighting through the courts?

Or does anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Architexeter]

I had this on a proposed front dormer, some houses had already done it (estate with same designs) but they still refused my application as they deemed dormers were not an "established part of the streetscene".

It was the most ridiculous refusal I have had as there were clearly some found locally and they infact improved the appearance of the house (a funny split level 1970s thing). The applicants desperately need the space to stay in the house, teenage boys were outgrowing their rooms, literally 6'6" and room was 6'.

I told my client to write a sob story for the reapplication about wanting to stay, not being able to move as negative equity and outgrowing house, so doing a dormer/loft extension as others have done.

I told them to contact their ward councillor to request that it be called to committee if the planning department is minded to refuse it (I corresponded with the councillors once initial contact had been made) - therefore if needed the applicants could go and speak at committee with the same above sob story and hope that the committee members are human and have a heart. Its harder to say no to someone in person.

I got the applicants to speak to their neighbours if they wanted to apply at the same time for the proposal even if they do not want to do it yet.

The revised application was for three neighbouring dormers and I put photos all over the application of the other ones up the road mentioning that it was an established streetscene feature. That way if needing to go to appeal hopefully the council looked pretty stupid.

Thankfully having done the above it was approved at delegated level - i.e. no committee needed.

Three things I felt were relevant here:

Politics and Planning are one and the same, do not underestimate the power of a ward councillor.
Always try and get it through at local level before trying appeal.
I found myself saying "Put that in your pipe and smoke it"

If I were you I would start by speaking to your ward councillor, show them the plans and see if they are willing to help.

Hope that helps.

P.S. sometimes a full hip to gable roof alteration is preferred.

 

[tekanaka]

Thanks for that. Latest update, yet more madness...

Apologies I didn't give the full info, just out of the very slim remote chance anyone involved happened to read it and in some way prejudice what was going on this week.

To add a bit more detail... in fact, I had done the following:
- Appealed to my local councillor to call it into a council planning committee for discussion, which it was.
- Tried to go around to all my neighbours and solicit their opinion on my proposal, obtained signatures from 15+ neighbours, including my immediate neighbour who would really be the only one marginally affected by this, and all signed in support of my planning application
- Talked to my residents association committee and they expressed support, minuting it all including their displeasure with the council's planning office.
- This week was the meeting of the councillors to discuss this and since zero objections were raised against my application, I was denied the right to speak. Council rules apparently, if nobody objects (not counting the council) then the applicant can't speak to the committee.
- Ok, so slight setback I'm thinking, nonetheless we submit a page summary of our arguments, signatures in support, pictures of prior applications which were approved under these guidelines and what we are looking to copy. That should help present the case.

This evening was the committee meeting.
- So the council's planning office were the ones to object, but that doesn't count, I still can't state my case.
- My written submission was obviously not read by any of the councillors, because some gross misrepresentations (borderline lying) by the planning office were not picked up on by any of the councillors.
- The planning office laid out their case saying it's hugely against the guidelines (which it isn't and they can't point me to anything that I'm infringing, only that it is "ugly").
- Finally they stated that to their knowledge I didn't use the pre-app meeting, which was not true, I paid for a pre-app and engaged them extensively over a month of emailing to come to some agreement or clarity. With this statement, half the councillors threw up their hands in disgust at such preposterous behaviour from an applicant and immediately voted to deny my application. End of story.

/rant

What the f' do I do now? Somehow really feel it was massively political.

My next thought was to approach the chair of that meeting and just ask what exactly happened there? How do I even get a voice? And also to approach the head of planning through the residents association, since I'm not the only one screaming that the planning office is plain nuts.

Any other thoughts?

 

[vv2806]

local newspapers or other media?

 

[noseall]

A large percentage of loft conversions, in particular those with out of proportion dormers, are very ugly.

Little thought is given to aesthetics whilst things like svp pipes, hideous plastic cladding or out-of-place tile hanging are just thrown on for fun.

However, if you are fond of that roof level shanty look, go for it.

 

[tekanaka]

local newspapers or other media?

There is no local paper... but yeah, social media might be an answer. Will look into that, thanks.

 

[tekanaka]

A large percentage of loft conversions, in particular those with out of proportion dormers, are very ugly.

Little thought is given to aesthetics whilst things like svp pipes, hideous plastic cladding or out-of-place tile hanging are just thrown on for fun.

However, if you are fond of that roof level shanty look, go for it.

I agree and I would rather not do the side dormer. But I have no option, the loft is rather large, however the the staircase is on the side external wall. So the only way to get headroom and pass any building regs is to create a dormer on the side slope of the roof. I've looked at repositioning the staircase, but I'd lose a bedroom to gain a bedroom (and spend £40k-£60k in the process), which does not make sense.

However, ugly or not, the real issue is that the conservation area guidelines say its ok, but it is being dismissed as ugly. And I'd go for any shape, colour or size side dormer that the planning office chooses as long as I can get a building regs staircase up into the loft...

 

[rjm2k]

Don't know if you can get it back to committee again but maybe you could get a good friend to object on some ridiculous minor point and then have a change of heart and withdraw the objection at the hearing. Local planning is a game of Russian roulette, can't say I would ever buy a listed or conservation area building myself as too much stress.

It looks like you can appeal the committee decision so I would look into that stating the refusal is not based on policy and that the planning dept have failed to work properly with you etc. Im not sure from what you posted if the conservation officer was ok with the proposal and its just planning who said no.