Inverted dormer planning required?

[Holly bruce]

Hi all, I was hoping someone here may be able to shed some light on whether an inverted dormer could be installed under permitted development? I am not in a conservation area and a normal projecting dormer is ok under permitted development here (north east Somerset) but I have seen some inspiring pictures of inverted dormers which allow the extra external space to be used as a small roof terrace. I know balconies and roof terraces that project further than the roof line need planning but this would be the existing floor of the loft that is made to be 'outside' by flattening off the existing pitched roof about 1.5m internally than the eaves.

I'm an end terrace and the inverted dormer would be the far side of the attached house, with about 1.5m of normal roof left after the inverted dormer before the neighbours house.

Many thanks

Holly

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

No balconies are permitted at all. It would need planning permission.

 

[Holly bruce]

Ah ok thanks for your reply, might just stick with a dormer then.

 

[^woody^]

No balconies are permitted at all. It would need planning permission.

Balconies are defined in the technical guide

"A balcony is defined as a platform with a rail, ballustrade or parapet projecting
outside an upper storey of a building."

The OPs proposal would not be a balcony, and therefore permitted. In fact it would be no worse than a window.

Is there any other guide or precedent to the contrary?

 

[Holly bruce]

Thanks Woody

I think I will ring planning on Monday just to check. I am the most impatient person ever so waiting until Monday to find out is a challenge for me haha

 

[tony1851]

There doesn't appear to be any appeal case concerning this on the Planning Jungle site.
There is one appeal case in which it was concluded that a Velux Cabrio rooflight does not constitute a 'verandah, balcony or raised platform', so make of that what you will.

 

[tony1851]

Thanks Woody

I think I will ring planning on Monday just to check. I am the most impatient person ever so waiting until Monday to find out is a challenge for me haha

I will lay you a pound to a penny that they will say it WOULD need planning permission - even if they are not sure themselves (they will do this just to get your £172 fee in to bolster their departmental Christmas Party Fund).

 

[tony1851]

Balconies are defined in the technical guide

"A balcony is defined as a platform with a rail, ballustrade or parapet projecting
outside an upper storey of a building."

Don't tell us you're going by what is stated in DCLG's Technical Guidance; we all know what happens when their interpretations of the law end up in the High Court!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Have you ever actually submitted a planning application in your life woods?

 

[Holly bruce]

Thanks Tony Just looked up the Velux Cabrio and it looks great! Love the flexibility, the one we would want is 3.5k though so it would have to make financial sense over a standard dormer. I got a quote from a local trusted builder and carpenter team for £26k for full loft conversion (semi-detached Victorian 3 bed) with a large dormer and plumbing for en-suite. Wondering how much cheaper (if any) it would be to have the 3.5k velux cabrio instead of a dormer...

I know it means less head height if the windows are shut but if it saves us enough then it would be worth it as the floor space is 8m eaves to eaves and 5.5m wide so it's a decent size for a master and en suite I think.

 

[^woody^]

Have you ever actually submitted a planning application in your life woods?

One or two. Why, do you need some help with one?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

One or two? That explains it.

 

[Holly bruce]

Hi all, just thought I would let you know that I got confirmation from Bath and North East Somerset County Council that Velux Cabrio windows are allowed under permitted development. They had a big meeting about it a couple of weeks ago and as long as they sit flush with the roof when closed they are classed as roof windows. Just trying to decide now whether to go for them or a dormer (dormer costs only 2k more). Dormer would give more space and we would have a Juliette balcony but I can't help being drawn to the Cabrio as they definitely have the wow factor!

 

[^woody^]

Omg. The West Midlands are moving up the table, whilst the Scone Munchers are going to be relagated at this rate. Get in there.

 

[napoleondynamite]

My take-

Cabrio rooflights would normally be considered PD if they comply with the Class C restrictions when closed. When open, the space you would be standing on is within the room, so no external balcony has been formed.

An 'inverted dormer', as I am picturing it, would involve cutting out a section of the roof and providing access to a external area with some sort of balustrade. This would be likely to be considered an external balcony area and would not therefore be PD.