crane delivery damage

[shardy]

Hi all,
a crane delivered the steels and other materials for our loft conversion today.
The crane driver spread the legs of the crane out and put plates under the feet.
One of the legs was on the pavement and the foot and plate have gone through the pavement causing a hole in front of our neighbour's house.
The loft company have said the steel company are liable and they will fix the damage. The steel company have said the crane company are liable and they will fix the damage. The crane company have said the steel company are liable.
I wondered who is liable and is my nipsy covered or could I get a bill for this?

ps sorry if this is the wrong forum for this question. wasn't sure where to post it

many thanks in advanceView attachment 93831

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Or just go out tonight with a bucket of readymix and hope nobody notices.

 

[kazuya]

i had this once with a skip lorry, they dint wanna know, said it was councils fault because pavement was substandard.
in the end i bought a few bags of tarmac and did it myself

 

[Newboy]

i had this once with a skip lorry, they dint wanna know, said it was councils fault because pavement was substandard.
in the end i bought a few bags of tarmac and did it myself

Did exactly the same about a month ago!

The damage was made by the crane company to the public highway so strictly speaking it's down to the crane company and the council to argue about - it's the person operating the crane's judgement as to whether the pavement could take the load imposed by the outrigger.

 

[^woody^]

It is the councils responsibility (duty) to repair the highway. No-one else's.

Being responsible for causing the damage is different to being responsible for the costs of repairing the damage.

Any individual responsibility for the costs (if any) will depend on the contractual arrangements between all the parties - including the homeowner who ordered the work.

Or it just gets written off and the council do it.

 

[mouk]

I woudl say liability is with whoever the delivery driver works for.

I had the same - council came and fixed it immediatley - I don't think they even asked for the details of the delivery company that caused my damage. Although mine was a tarmac fill in job - yours looks like a bit more work.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Check to see if there's anything in the company's T&C's about suitable areas for the crane to operate. I used to drive skip lorries and roadsweepers, if people checked the T&C's on the back of the ticket, the hirer was responsible for all damage howsoever incurred if they ordered the vehicle to leave the Public Highway.

 

[mouk]

Check to see if there's anything in the company's T&C's about suitable areas for the crane to operate. I used to drive skip lorries and roadsweepers, if people checked the T&C's on the back of the ticket, the hirer was responsible for all damage howsoever incurred if they ordered the vehicle to leave the Public Highway.

Which is likely to be an unfair contract term - so open to abuse.

If the driver (or company) causes the damage its their problem. IOtherwise they coudl be totally reckless and leave liability with the innocent homeowner.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Likewise, it's also to deter customers demanding their skip is put in the most ridiculous of places, (so they don't have to go too far to load it), and then kick off when damage is caused by the vehicle trying to pick up a heavy bin. You would be amazed (possibly) about some of the places we were expected to place skips. I have been asked to drive 200 yards across a grassed area, place bins behind trees, (and one customer when told that wasn't possible, moved his skip once delivered, then filled it and wondered why we couldn't pick it up!)....

From a skip hire Co's T &C's.

"Except as specifically otherwise agreed in writing, the provider or supplier shall be under no obligation to deposit the hire item(s) elsewhere than on a highway .

The Hirer agrees in all cases: – To provide and adequately maintain all necessary approach roads and sites for the purpose of the delivery .


Where the Skip company or the Driver are requested or directed to deposit or pick up hire item(s) on, or from a site, which is off a highway; or where delivery otherwise involves the passage of the vehicle over gratings, drains, roads, pavements, forecourts, yards, asphalt areas or any like areas, the Skip company shall be under no liability whatsoever to the Hirer for any damage howsoever caused whilst the vehicle is off the highway .

To the fullest extent permitted by the law, the Skip company shall not be held liable for any negligence or tort on the part of the skip provider .

Without prejudice to the generality of Condition 7c the Hirer shall subject as above, hold harmless and keep the Skip company indemnified against any claim or demand which could not have been made had the Driver not been so requested or directed .

The Hirer will, in addition, compensate the Skip company or the provider for any damage to the vehicle or the hire item(s) which would not have occurred had the Driver not been so requested or directed and which is not due to any negligence on the part of the Driver."

Pretty standard for most Skip hire companies I suspect, otherwise (as often happens), the Skip driver gets blamed for damage that may even be historic and present prior to the vehicle visiting the site! I have been accused of hitting a parked car, (only problem was the paint residue on the car was white and the vehicle I was driving was actually black at that level), loosing a large lump of wood out the bin and damaging a passing car, this time I was a) coming from the wrong direction, and about a mile away from the car when the damage occurred, (the skip vehicle was travelling in the opposite direction to the car, so when the car had turned round I was the first skip vehicle the driver saw so it was clearly my fault!), and b) the bin I was carrying had come from a large laundry provider and was full of ripped linen!

 

[shardy]

thanks for your replies folks, very helpful. Not sure whether to anonymously report this to council and hope they come and fix it, or have a crack at it myself, or report the crane company to the council. My neighbour can't park on their drive at the moment which is unfair on them.
After the initial damage was pointed out to the crane driver, he carried on lifting more loads and the damage became a lot worse. He couldn't move the crane over and put the legs on the road because a parked car was in the way and nobody knew who it belonged to.
I suppose the driver is under a lot of pressure to crack on with all his deliveries, and we all wanted it unloaded. I did ask him why he couldn't put wooden sleepers or something under the feet to spread the load. He replied that the steel company should've given him more details about the site and then he would've brought sleepers so it was there fault. When I asked "what about those sleepers on the back of your truck" he didn't reply.
Maybe those sleepers were part of his next delivery?

 

[MarkBarl]

There is to my knowledge quite a bit of regulation regarding lifting and mobile cranes. To the best of my knowledge, assuming that it was a simple lift that required no official recorded planning of the lift, then whoever was responsible for supervising the lift should be the responsible person. It is possible that the steel firm who I assume contracted the crane signed their life away in the small print that makes them responsible in some "shall ensure the suitability of the site for a xx tonne mobile crane" type clause. I would think it highly unlikely that you could be held responsible as you have no expertise, qualification or knowledge to organise or supervise a crane operation (I assume) and could therefore not reasonably be held responsible for the damage.
If you have had all the steelwork done, then report it to the council, if they ask for details of the crane firm give it to them. You have no contract with the crane firm so it can't come back to you.

 

[^woody^]

It's no good pondering the contractual technicalities whilst the path remains in a dangerous condition.

Fill it or report it to the council who will deal with it within a few hours.

 

[shardy]

thanks again for more info chaps. It's filled in with ballast for now and sprayed with yellow highlighter paint around the area to draw attention to the remaining trip hazard. Council know about it. Round here, if you tell them its dangerous, then its 3-5 days for the council to come out and assess it. I asked a couple of local ground works companies if they could fix it but they both said they weren't allowed to and could get fined by the council if anyone reported them.