Dealing with floor residue

[i_am_fubar]

I know this has been discussed before, but I can't seem to get a comprehensive answer.

Our new house currently has low quality laminate downstairs and we want to replace it with glue down solid walnut.

Problem is, the floor is made up in these layers:
- HDF Laminate flooring -
- Felt underlay -
- Old lino tiles -
- Old bitumen -
- Concrete -
- Un-known DPM -

I may need to lay a liquid DPM, but will cross that bridge when I come to it.

My biggest issue is stripping the old lino tiles and then stripping / sealing / covering... etc the old bitumen adheasive. What is the easiest and cheapest way to do this properly?

Cheers,
Fubar.

 

[KenGMac]

i_am_fubar, good evening.

I am a little bit concerned about a couple of things.

Firstly the "old lino tiles?" could contain asbestos?

Secondly, the "Old Bitumen" is in all probability the DPC? all to common in property of lets say around the 1950s ?

You do not say how old the house is? you say a "new house, new or new to you?

A further area of concern is the actual attempts at removing the tiles from the bitumen, could be a serious problem [having been there on previous occasions] what can tend to happen is that as you try to remove a tile that has [in effect] been fused to the Bitumen, it is the Bitumen that lifts off the Concrete, not easy to patch and get really level.

Removal of the old tiles is a very messy operation leaving an at times extremely un-even and "sticky" surface to the bitumen

As for any of the liquid applied DPMs, I do not trust them, sorry about that.

Ken.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Cheers for taking the time to respond Ken.

House is 1960's. Bitumen has been used as a patchy adhesive and never had any integrity as a DPM. Also evidence of polythene DPM elsewhere.

Not going to get any sort of bond with the tiles, they're falling off in places.

I'm aware of the issues and difficulties of removing bitumen, but unless I can screed over it without compromising adhesion, I'll never be able to glue the floor down.

Need to test moisture content of the concrete I guess. Shame I can't just bitumen the wood down

Fubar.

 

[KenGMac]

I_am_fubar, Hi again.

AAH, see what you are facing.

Sorry but I picked up the stick at the wrong end?

I have seen "heating oil" - Kerosene - strip off "totally" bitumen when I was inspecting a flood claim and an escape of Heating oil. The Kerosene totally stripped a spray applied bituminous Solumn sealant over the entire area of a sub floor. What was a real "bummer" was that we could not get the escaped " Kerosene" Off all of the surfaces to replace the Solumn DPM. We used a different approach to get the Solumn water tight.

Enough of this digression?

There are some other generally highly "flammable Liquids" that can remove this type of Bitumen. Obviously they simply can not be employed !

The possible use of a Pneumatic "needle gun" to remove not only the tiles but the Bitumen and the top layer of the Concrete is Noisy, expensive, and highly disruptive, with a load of dust ? ?

One possible light at the end of the tunnel [provided that someone starts the Generator ?] is to consider "Over-Boarding" the tiles [and obviously the Bitumen] by screwing down into the Concrete a layer of "Suitably THICK" plywood?"

As I recall the British Standard notes that this Ply should be 20.MM thick and screwed at not more than 100.MM. centre to centre each way.

As for the "step down" to other rooms, this can be achieved by using "diminishing strips" in effect a triangular section of material that in effect slowly ramps the two levels

Hope this gives some food for thought?

Ken.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Investigated a few of the tiles and I feel they may in fact be asbestos based, going to get them under the microsope / send off for testing. So when we come to do the floor proper, I'll have to suit up and strip as per recommended removal guidelines.

I also dug down a little at the joint between the extension and main living room and discovered a vertical piece of, what seems to be DPC rather than DPM over the old wall base (found the bricks) and starts to go under the house floor proper. I'm not convinced we have a proper DPM under there. Extension has a poured bitumen DPM under aprox. 50mm of screed.

The tiles that I investigated essentially popped off (a couple snapped, very fragile) the old adheasive/bitumen (small amount of residue on the underside of the tiles, but total coverage on concrete. less than 1mm thick. bitumen is missing in patches around edges of the room.

I considered overboarding, but would rather not add another 20mm to the floor due to low ceilings. And I can't really ramp it down due to the selected walnut flooring.

I'm trying to investigate primers, liquid DPM and screeds to facilitate perfect prep with minimal bitumen removal. But all the primers I can find to treat the bitumen, stipulate there is a DPM, and all the liquid DPMs state bitumen should be primed. So, chicken and egg

Any advise on what suitable primer I could use? Need to test the moisture content and see if I do have a DPM, but I was under the impression that bitumen DPMs were quite thick, not a very thin spread.

Will try and get pictures.

Cheers,
Fubar.

 

[dazlight]

I know this has been discussed before, but I can't seem to get a comprehensive answer.

Our new house currently has low quality laminate downstairs and we want to replace it with glue down solid walnut.

Problem is, the floor is made up in these layers:
- HDF Laminate flooring -
- Felt underlay -
- Old lino tiles -
- Old bitumen -
- Concrete -
- Un-known DPM -

I may need to lay a liquid DPM, but will cross that bridge when I come to it.

My biggest issue is stripping the old lino tiles and then stripping / sealing / covering... etc the old bitumen adheasive. What is the easiest and cheapest way to do this properly?

Cheers,
Fubar.

Why are you gluing the wood down, you could be better using a good engineering wood.
But to sort your floor out you will need to remove back down to the concrete.
To take tiles up wear a mask and wet the tiles. Try to take them up in full tiles if possible. Then double bag them.

You will need to grind the old adhesive off.

Then 2 coats of a liquid dpm like
F.ball stopgap F75
Ardex Dpm 1c

Then a water based smoothing compound screed.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Call me old fasioned. But I like the idea of solid wood. I love parquet and the rock solid feel that comes with it.

I have nothing intrinsically against engineered flooring, but for one, you have a limited number of sand and re-finishes. Also, the underlay adds a bounce to the floor that iritates me, especially when the floor depresses around the skirting board when you stand near a wall.

I know what ideally needs to be done, but time wise, the budget doesn't stretch to a full grind of the floor (plus the bitumen could have yet more asbestos in it.

From a cost perspective, the engineered would be cheaper, simple due to the ease of prep. DPM, underlay, floor...

Only other option is to screw chipboard down and glue to that. But would make the floor prohibitive thick.

Fubar.

 

[KenGMac]

Fubar, hi again.

This is on this site, have a look?

Bitumen Floor

May be what you need?

Just been replied to NOW

Ken

 

[KenGMac]

Fubar.

Sorry about this.

It is in general building section.

Ken