Dimming control packs?

[andyfr]

We are in the process of building an extension for the kitchen and at the moment I haven't put the flooring down or the walls and ceiling up so now is the best time to do anything with the lighting.

We are going to have four zones for lighting, Perimiter, Wall & Under Cupboard, Island and Dining area. Now ther is no point having all the lights on full all the time so we have been to see a lighting designer and he showed us a four zone dimming control panel which has switch plates which are connected to the control unit with CAT5 cable. The system allows various "scenes" to be programmed, so for example one could be "cooking" where all the perimiter lights were on full and the island and dining area are dinmmed, then for eating another scene could be "dining" where all the kitchen lights are dimmed and the dining area is brighter.

Now this is very impressive but not cheap. We don't want to wish we had done it in the future so would be prepared to stretch the budget if necessary.

We could do it cheaper with normal dimmers but that means twiddling four knobs each time we want to change function.

Does anyone have any experience of this type of unit and what are your thoughts, pros and cons?

Any advice appreciated.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Is this control system remote control?

If so, nice 1.

If not, then you are still going to have to approach the switch plate to make a change of any kind. How much hassle do you really think it will be to adjust the lights?

Also, FWIW, 4 different lighting functions IMO would give enough permutations without dimming to give the desired effect.

If you were putting a 20 way lighting function in, then i suppose the cat5 system might be of value, but again, only IMO, it will be an expensive toy that you will get bored of after a few weeks.

Think of the cost of replacement in the case of a single failure for both all different methods.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Is this control system remote control?

If so, nice 1.

If not, then you are still going to have to approach the switch plate to make a change of any kind. How much hassle do you really think it will be to adjust the lights?

Also, FWIW, 4 different lighting functions IMO would give enough permutations without dimming to give the desired effect in a modest sized kitchen.

If you were putting a 20 way lighting function in, then i suppose the cat5 system might be of value, but again, only IMO, it will be an expensive toy that you will get bored of after a few weeks.

Think of the cost of replacement in the case of a single failure for all different methods.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

oops, quoted instead of edited.

 

[Steve]

andyfr, do you not want energy saving lamps?

a filament lamp running at 50% brightness uses about 75% of its normal energy, and will turn everything orange. You will save very little money.

I would suggest for your "perimiter" and "wall&undercupboard" zones that you install plate switches, and use CFLs or T5 striplighting. These are very thin tubes, very efficient and instant starting (literally, there is no delay in firing up).

 

[andyfr]

We have been looking at LEDs. There is a Philips one just out which is 9 watts for a GU10 fitting and is quite impressive and the technology is improving all the time.

 

[Steve]

T5s are the best you can buy at the moment. And they dont look too bad in the right fittings, or hidden around the wall cupboard tops (just need the tubes washing and dusting every so often - greasy dust in a kitchen etc)

 

[andyfr]

They don't do T5s for downlights do they?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) Proper fluorescent lamps (I don't mean just the long fat tubes) can be driven by HF control gear which is dimmable.

2) Cold cathode can just sneak under the 1000V ceiling for low voltage, and is dimmable.

Andy - did this "lighting designer" talk at all about all the different options for luminaires and the different lighting technology, or did he just look at ways of automating the control of banks of useless small downlights?

See these for some recent discussions:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=193067&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1344614#1344614

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We have been looking at LEDs. There is a Philips one just out which is 9 watts for a GU10 fitting and is quite impressive and the technology is improving all the time.

Do not under any circumstances fit any GU10/MR16 type lights.

Not with halogen lamps, not with CFLs, not with LEDs, not with candles, not with anything.

Don't even think about it - you're starting with a blank sheet - FGS put something in which actually works properly.

EDIT:

PS - if you paid that "lighting designer" and he didn't tell you not to use those types of lights then go and ask for your money back - he's ignorant and incompetent.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

T5s are the best you can buy at the moment. And they dont look too bad in the right fittings, or hidden around the wall cupboard tops (just need the tubes washing and dusting every so often - greasy dust in a kitchen etc)

Use 900mm wall units to within 50mm or so of the ceiling, and fill the gap with a fillet of acrylic. No greasy dust/spiders/kamikaze moths.

 

[Steve]

T5s are the best you can buy at the moment. And they dont look too bad in the right fittings, or hidden around the wall cupboard tops (just need the tubes washing and dusting every so often - greasy dust in a kitchen etc)

Use 900mm wall units to within 50mm or so of the ceiling, and fill the gap with a fillet of acrylic. No greasy dust/spiders/kamikaze moths.

why 900mm? why 50mm? Is perspex not available in any size? And it'd look bad anyway, all that selant around it etc.

BTW, ban, in case you hadn't realised, andyFR was the one a couple of month ago (i think) who came on, having seen a downlight salesman, masquerading as a lighting designer. He still hasnt sorted his kitchen out. The missus must be sick of takeaways, she wants her kitchen back!

 

[andyfr]

Do not under any circumstances fit any GU10/MR16 type lights.

Not with halogen lamps, not with CFLs, not with LEDs, not with candles, not with anything.

Don't even think about it - you're starting with a blank sheet - FGS put something in which actually works properly.

We were out a couple of weeks ago and went into a cafe which had the type of lights you mentioned in my previous post but we didn't like the general overall light from them. I realise you don't like downlights but we do, we like the flood type downlights which give broad pools of bright cool white light, now if there are fittings other than GU10 which can achieve this then that's great!

 

[andyfr]

He still hasnt sorted his kitchen out. The missus must be sick of takeaways, she wants her kitchen back!

No Steve, we still have the old kitchen operational. It's a long project as I'm doing most of the building work inside at weekends and in the evenings.

 

[Steve]

This:

http://www.qvsdirect.com/Low-Energy-18W-PL-Downlight-C-w-Lamp-2-Bezels-IP44-pr-23522.html

Will.

Its a PL lamp, cheaper than normal CFLs, as they are just a tube, the ballast is that black bit on the back of the fitting. Looks like a standard downlight.

The fitting itself is expensive. But browse that dept on QVS, they have a lot of similar fittings. The PL ones are what you're after, as these could also be retrofitted with dimmable ballasts.